(09-07-2022 03:27 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-07-2022 02:30 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(09-07-2022 02:12 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-07-2022 12:12 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(09-07-2022 11:44 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  Yes, it mentions "the office of the clerk, to the clerk, or to an authorized assistant of the clerk." Instead of typing all of that out I generalized to the clerk.

In my mind, the Clerk is the individual who holds the office of the clerk.

When I renewed my license plate back in April I went to the county clerk. I did not conduct business specifically with Wanda Halbert, but with someone who is authorized to conduct business on her behalf.

So, I didn't go to Wanda Halbert's office. I didn't go to the authorized assistant of the clerk. I went to the clerk or clerk's office -- generic.


The link you provided includes the following:


If this is the source you are using as being updated to include "drop box" then my point still stands.

Ctrl-F shows 20 instances of "drop". The last instance (bold red) is in Section 5 (b).

Section 5 © does not include "drop".

5(a) says you can mail the ballot.
5(b) lists the valid means of getting a ballot 'to the clerk' other than by mail. Including a drop box.

5© says that the delivery to the clerk by either 5(a) or 5(b) can be done by the listed people. Specifically, the first words of 5© are 'In either (a) or (b)', that is by any of the means of 5(a) or 5(b) above. It pulls in the dropbox by the words 'In either (a) or (b)'.

Why does 5 © specifically omit "drop box"?

It seems to say that if a ballot is returned by someone other than the voter then it must be mailed or returned to the clerk.

5© specifically says that if the ballot is returned via 5(a) or 5(b) ("In either (a) or (b)"), then the following big list of people are empowered to return it via 5(a) or 5(b) (any of the methods in 5(a) or 5(b), mind you). Returning it by drop box is one of the methods in 5(b).

I would say you would be correct if the term "In either (a) or (b)" wasnt there -- in that case the 5© would say exactly as you state. But that phrase says (translating to normal English) "If the ballot is delivered by the methods mentioned in a or b above, the following people can do it."

Quote:The statute also specifically outlines WHO can be in possession of an absentee ballot. I added the bullets in the quote below for ease of reading.

Quote:WARNING

PERSONS WHO CAN LEGALLY BE IN POSSESSION OF AN ABSENT VOTER BALLOT ISSUED TO AN ABSENT VOTER ARE LIMITED TO:

• THE ABSENT VOTER;
• A PERSON WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE ABSENT VOTER’S IMMEDIATE FAMILY OR RESIDES IN THE ABSENT VOTER’S HOUSEHOLD AND WHO HAS BEEN ASKED BY THE ABSENT VOTER TO RETURN THE BALLOT;
• A PERSON WHOSE JOB IT IS TO HANDLE MAIL BEFORE, DURING, OR AFTER BEING TRANSPORTED BY A PUBLIC POSTAL SERVICE, EXPRESS MAIL SERVICE, PARCEL POST SERVICE, OR COMMON CARRIER, BUT ONLY DURING THE NORMAL COURSE OF HIS OR HER EMPLOYMENT;
• AND THE CLERK, ASSISTANTS OF THE CLERK, AND OTHER AUTHORIZED ELECTION OFFICIALS OF THE CITY OR TOWNSHIP.
  

ANY OTHER PERSON IN POSSESSION OF AN ABSENT VOTER BALLOT IS GUILTY OF A FELONY.

Note that anyone else in possession of an absentee ballot is committing a felony.

The only people who can possess a ballot are identified above and the only people who can turn it in are either:
1. The voter by mail, clerk or drop box
2. Other person (already defined) by mail or clerk

You misread -- the people that are allowed to possess a absent voter ballot are --

the voter;
a person who is in the immediate family or resides with the absent voter and has been asked to 'return the ballot';
the mail personnel;
people under control of the clerk.

The bullet point sections only refer to 'return' the ballot, and is silent on the mode. 5(a) and 5(b) delineate the lawful modes of returning the ballot -- a) by mail, b) directly handing it to the clerk, or returning it to the clerk via brop box.

The bullet point sections dont limit anything in 5(a) or 5(b).

The process of voting includes several different flows in various directions, e.g. getting the ballot to the voter, the voter submitting the ballot, etc.

The process of ballot management includes other flows such as ordering the ballots from the printer, storing pre-election ballots, etc.

In this discussion of who may possess a ballot I'm speaking of two types of parties:
1. The voter or his/her designee (family members or roommate)
2. Those to whom the ballot is tendered (clerk <generalized>, post <generalized>

The drop box is not a person, it is a thing. The drop box does not possess a ballot; rather, it stores a ballot.

If any other "person" possesses a ballot that person is guilty of a felony.


Only the voter or his/her designee may "submit" a ballot; either to clerk, post or drop box depending on the scenario.

Of all the authorized persons who may be in possession of a ballot, 5(a) and 5(b) can be performed only by:

• THE ABSENT VOTER;
• A PERSON WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE ABSENT VOTER’S IMMEDIATE FAMILY OR RESIDES IN THE ABSENT VOTER’S HOUSEHOLD AND WHO HAS BEEN ASKED BY THE ABSENT VOTER TO RETURN THE BALLOT;
  

Obviously the clerk or the post should not mail the ballot or place it in the drop box.

So assuming only the two types of people can submit a ballot, 5© says that the PERSON WHO IS A MEMBER OF THE ABSENT VOTER’S IMMEDIATE FAMILY OR RESIDES IN THE ABSENT VOTER’S HOUSEHOLD AND WHO HAS BEEN ASKED BY THE ABSENT VOTER TO RETURN THE BALLOT must do so by mail or clerk. Drop box is not an option.

Any manner of return by a or b is pulled in by the phrase ""In either (a) or (b)".

If someone in that list does any action covered by (a) or (b), then it is legal.

Quote:Maybe the statute says elsewhere that the drop box has been legally equated to the clerk, but I don't see where it says that in 5 a, b or c.

If it is done by you under (a), you are good.

If it done by you under (b), you are good.

If it is done by either (a) or (b), it can be done by the others on the list.

I cant get more succint than that.

Your comments make the phrase "In either (a) or (b)" at best superfluous to ©, and at worst create an internal conflict within ©.

RWT even put out stuff from the SOS that confirms this.

From the Mich SOS:

Quote:Where a person is shown possibly bringing and signing more than one ballot to a drop box, they can legally be returning ballots for voters who are family members or members of their household