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(09-22-2020 03:25 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 03:00 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(09-22-2020 10:23 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(09-20-2020 03:35 PM)Former Lurker Wrote:  

(09-20-2020 11:45 AM)Bearcat 1985 Wrote:  Regarding Miami, I just have a hard time defining their strengths. They're not a liberal arts college. They're not a flagship research university. Their alumni base isn't all that. Despite how they like to portray themselves, they seem to be good at churning out a lot of corporate middle-managers. Their endowment is actually slightly smaller than OU's, and their last multi-year campaign was a failure. So, what are they? What are they other than a more selective version of Bowling Green that's found a way to market itself in the Chicago suburbs to preppy conservative kids who don't get into UofI? How do you build on that? Where do you go with it? I think the academic and reputational stagnation and decline they're experiencing is inevitable. Hell, it was literally written in stone the moment that the state of Ohio decided to let Ohio State compete with them on an equal footing as selective undergraduate colleges.

Regarding Cincinnati, I don't think it's necessarily aping Ohio State as much as it's doing the things necessary to achieve what I think are the long term strategic goals that everyone in these discussions agrees on and thinks are attainable: making UC the undisputed second comprehensive research university in Ohio and getting into the AAU. We can't do either unless we both continue to build upon our strengths while making a firm commitment to address our fundamental weakness in A&S. I understand that using OSU as the aspirational model for this is going to rub some people the wrong way. So let's take those emotions out of the debate and just say we need to look at Minnesota or Wisconsin or Texas and do the things necessary to move in their direction. In fact, Pitt would be a perfect model in this regard.

Ideally:

OSU = UVa
UC = VT
Miami = William & Mary

OSU is very close to UVa. How close is UC to VT? Miami has been slipping, it is not as close to W & M today as it was 20 years ago.

I've always liked the Virginia system as a corrollary for what Ohio could be should we continue the way we are currently organized...two public academic engines (UVA and VT), one huge endowment with an extremely solid research drive in an urban environment (VCU), one highly reputable public LA/UG Research institution (W&M), and then large mostly UG focused research institutions in the major population areas (JMU, ODU, and GMU). To me, the comparison can push even further than what you've said.

OSU = UVA
UC = VCU (VERY similar institutions at this point...we're far off from VT, and likely will never get there based on the representative disparity in the State House.)
Miami = William and Mary
Kent State/Akron = George Mason
OU = JMU
BGSU/Toledo = ODU

The comparison is tempting. Especially with William & Mary and Miami being the only real comparables for each other in the country. And especially for UC fans who want UC to be regarded like Virginia Tech.

However, our system is fundamentally different because of the huge difference in the size of the flagship: Ohio State has 61,000 students. UVA has 25,000.

Ohio is about 30% bigger than Virginia, so you would expect UVA to about the size of UC if the systems were comparable.

What is the Ohio equivalent of small liberal arts public colleges like Longwood, University of Mary Washington, and Christopher Newport? They don't exist.



Also, the systems are fundamentally affected by the private schools in the state. Xavier = Richmond. Christendom = Stuebenville. But other than that?

What is the Virginia equivalent of Case Western? It doesn't exist.

What is the Virginia equivalent of Dayton? It doesn't exist.

What is the Ohio equivalent of Liberty? A large, mediocre private school with no research focus? It doesn't exist.

It seems like every little Ohio town has a university. Ohio has three times as many private schools with over 2,000 students as Virginia does, and none of the Virginia ones are highly ranked. What is the Virginia equivalent of Oberlin, Kenyon, Baldwin-Wallace, Dennison, John Carroll, etc? There's Washington & Lee, but it's tiny.

The number of colleges and universities in this state is ridiculous. Tiffin, Ohio has two colleges in their city and 24 others within a 50 mile radius.

Yep...Ohio is one of the worst states when it comes to college bound students per institution. Its the reason why I'd expect quite a few of the random small schools to either merge or shutter in the next few years.