(09-27-2020 10:58 AM)jedclampett Wrote:  .

(09-27-2020 08:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  IMO, these are the only “Blue Bloods”, and it is based on a trophy case (no matter how dusty) and history: UCLA, Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Indiana, Kansas.

Those are probably the uncontested blue bloods, although Indiana's credentials aren't quite as solid as the others are. Yet, they are #4 on the list of all-time NCAA championships (with 5; they are (2 NCs ahead of Villanova and 3 ahead of Cincy).

UCLA (11 NCs), Kentucky (8 NCs), UNC (6 NCs), Duke (5), Kansas (5), & Indiana (5).

The first 5 are certainly the top 5 most uncontested blue bloods, with Indiana being added by some because they're tied for 4th in total National Championships.

If Indiana is to be included as a blueblood (of the "legends" rather than "current elites" variety), a strong case can be made that Syracuse and Louisville should be included as well, because their accomplishment match or exceed those of Indiana in some respects, and because they have been more successful in the past decade.

However, Indiana has had fewer NCAA bids, fewer finishes in the AP Top 25, and their recent credentials aren't quite as solid as the others are.



1) UCLA (11 NCAA championships; 47 NCAA bids; 44 top 25 teams since 1949)

2) Kentucky (8 NCAA championships; 58 NCAA bids; 43 top 25 teams since 1949)

3) UNC (6 NCAA championships; 50 NCAA bids; 50 top 25 teams since 1956)

4) Duke (5 NCAA championships; 43 NCAA bids; 47 top 25 teams since 1952)

5) Kansas (5 consensus national championships (3 NCAA NCs); 48 NCAA bids; 44 top 25 teams since 1950)

----------------------------line of demarcation-------------------------------

6) Indiana (5 NCAA championships; 39 NCAA bids; a notch below Kansas, with only 27 top 25 teams since 1950)

7) Syracuse (3 consensus national championships (1 NCAA NC); 40 NCAA bids; 27 top 25 teams since 1973)

8) Louisville (2 NCAA championships (+1 vacated NCAA NC); 39 NCAA bids; 33 top 25 teams since 1952)

* If Louisville's NCAA violations are comparable to those of UConn, they probably don't belong on this list.

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(09-27-2020 08:38 AM)esayem Wrote:  UConn has won four titles in the last 21 years — all since IU has won their last in ‘87 — so there is an argument there. UConn is still a little nouveau riche, but as time goes on with continued success they will surely join the upper crust.

You don't seem to know the entire background of the Calhoun/Ollie scandal at UConn, and so what follows is not intended as a criticism of your post, but only of the idea of UConn as a possible future blueblood, which some fans of the game consider a preposterous notion.

Here's why:

All of UConn's NCAA championship wins and almost all of their other major accomplishments took place during a 17 to 25 year era which came to an end when both of UConn's Head Coaches (Calhoun and Ollie) were summarily fired by the University and disgraced after being found guilty by the NCAA of an ongoing and unremitting pattern of major recruiting and other serious rule violations.

Since of of their glorious "accomplishments" are severely tainted by scandals by two successive head coaches, and because the University created a climate of tolerance for serious misbehavior, the idea of UConn being high on the list of future "blue bloods" is truly appalling.

I'm aware that Rick Pitino was fired after a recruiting violation at Louisville, but to my knowledge, it pales in comparison with what Coaches Calhoun and Ollie's wanton violations that took place over a period of at least 17 years, and possibly over 20 years.

If I'm wrong about Louisville, then perhaps they should be bumped off the blue blood contenders list

At the very least, wouldn't you agree that any seasons that were tainted by an ongoing pattern of serious recruiting or other violations should not be counted toward blue blood status?

That seems only fair, because otherwise, it sends out the message that cheating is tolerated to such an extent that winning by cheating is 100% ok - - and surely that is not the case.

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The other reason why UConn doesn't come close to blue blood status in some peoples' view is that they didn't finish a single season on the Final AP Top 20 list until 1990 (a year after their severely tainted HC Calhoun took over their program).

What that means is that the only UConn teams that have ever ended a season in the Final AP Top 20 were coached by two Head Coaches (Calhoun and his collaborator and former assistant, Ollie) who were fired and disgraced for an ongoing pattern of major NCAA rule violations over a two-decade period.

To be a dyed in the wool "blue blood," most people would agree that a program would have to have had made their way onto a Final top 20 list before 1960 or 1965, at the latest. All of the other schools on the list above (including Indiana, Syracuse, and Louisville pass that Final AP Top 20 (not top 25) test with flying colors).

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The only way to prevent wanton violations of major NCAA rules is to establish and enforce something close to a zero tolerance policy, or something like a "two strikes and you're out" policy.

It would be one thing if we didn't give a damn about sportsmanship or ethics, or the broader meaning of higher education for young student athletes, but we do - - at least most of us do, and if the day comes when no one cares about those things any more, then that's the day when college athletics will become a foul and utter travesty.

Hence my nouveau riche comment. They’ve laid a foundation and have the ability to cite that in the future.