(09-25-2020 02:32 PM)jedclampett Wrote:  

(09-25-2020 11:12 AM)esayem Wrote:  .

Gonzaga is just doing what UNLV did in the Big West/PCC. It’s not revolutionary, it happens when a great coach stays in place in a minor conference.

Having BYU join the WCC made the WCC superior to the old Big West, maybe but I’m not so sure.

"...they are in no way a major conference..."

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It is erroneous to refer to the WCC as a "minor" conference, unless your intention was to use the word as a term of derision.

The applicable term today for all but the "Major 7 (or "high major") conferences is "mid-major." Since 2000 or earlier, the term "minor conference" has only been used to describe the Division II and III conferences.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Divis...ajor_teams

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Far from being an obscure, run-of-the-mill mid-major conference, the West Coast Conference was ranked the #9 ranked conference in the nation in 2019-20.

http://www.warrennolan.com/basketball/20...ferencenet

Because it is at least within the realm of possibility for a #9 conference to move up two ranks to become the #7 conference in the nation, it cannot be ruled out that the current #9 conferences might be able to improve enough to join the ranks of the "Major 7" conferences at some point in the future.

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(09-25-2020 11:12 AM)esayem Wrote:  they are in no way a major conference....

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That is factually incorrect, unless you meant to write they are not "a high-major conference, at present," and to acknowledge that they could become one of the Major 7 conferences by moving up from 9th place to 7th place in the next few years.

As documented in the link above and elsewhere, the WCC is a major conference, of the mid-major type[/i], and it was the #2 mid-major conference in the nation in 2019-20.

Notably, the WCC out-performed its top regional competitor (the "Major 7" PAC-12 conference) in 2017-18, 2018-19, and 2019-20 in one important respect, by having more teams than the PAC-12 had in the Final AP Top 25 in those three seasons.

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Although the PAC-12 sent twice as many teams (11 vs 5) to the 2017, 2018, and 2019 NCAA tournaments, the teams from the WCC won a higher percentage of their tournament games and ended up winning only one fewer NCAA tournament game (11 vs. 12 wins) between 2017 and 2019.

WCC record in 2017, 2018, & 2019 NCAA tournaments: 11-5 (.688)

PAC-12 record in 2017, 2018, & 2019 NCAA tournaments: 12-10 (.545)

(09-25-2020 11:12 AM)esayem Wrote:  If you look at the gyms where most of the WCC plays, they are in no way a major conference....

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Again, this is demonstrably incorrect, because there is no factual basis for either asserting or implying that the size of a D1 school's basketball arena sets an upper-limit on their program's potential to achieve major success in the future.

This is known by the millions of CBB fans who know that many of the nation's elite or near-elite college BB programs played their games in gymnasiums or small arenas for decades before they achieved major success.

Examples:

From 1932 until 1986 (after their NCAA Championship win vs. Georgetown), Villanova played in the Jake Nevin Field House, which had a seating capacity of 1,500. That facility was smaller than those of all but two of the WCC schools listed above.*

From 1941 until 1985, Seton Hall played in Walsh Gymnasium (capacity: 1,655).

From 1952 until 1981, Georgetown played in McDonough Gymnasium (capacity: 2,500).


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(09-25-2020 11:12 AM)esayem Wrote:  Having BYU join the WCC made the WCC superior to the old Big West, maybe but I’m not so sure.

In the 9 seasons since BYU became a member (2011-2020), the WCC has had an average of 1.875 teams in the AP Final Top 25. There was one comparable nine-year period in the 51-year history of the Big West (1985-94), when the Big West had an average of 1.67 teams in the AP Final Top 25.

Whether or not that makes the current WCC superior to the best years of the old Big West isn't clear, but the comparison would be favorable.

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Thanks, but all categorization of conferences is subjective, and the WCC is a minor conference based on the fact top to bottom there isn’t much historic success. You do know anybody can edit Wikipedia, right? Back to objective measurements, USF won a couple of titles during a segregated era of basketball. Gonzaga has had the luxury of dominating absolutely atrocious programs like Portland twice a year and cruising to a tourney bid where they fold somewhere along the way. St. Mary’s is a decent mid-major program along the lines of VCU, but without a Final 4. Fun fact: they’ve only made one Sweet 16 under Bennett.

The Big West of the 80’s is exactly what I was talking about. I’m not sure your point there.

Top to bottom the Pac 12 crushes the WCC year in and out, and it’s not even close. Look at the conference win percentage, the WCC has not eclipsed .584 the last 20 years (they hit .584 last season, at that). The Pac — not sure how I got roped into defending them — has surpassed the WCC’s high water mark of .584 eleven times since 2000. The WCC is a one trick pony, with a couple of sneaky old horses in a stable of old grey mares.

But hey, keep fighting for the little guy. It’s admirable, but ultimately a waste of your time.