(07-13-2020 11:24 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  If you need an armed escort 100 yards away, how is that helping to change things?

That you have a specially trained 'de-escalator' out front. It happens all the time in any sort of hostage negotiations.

Quote:What if you think you are walking up on just a regular Joe, and he turns out to be a drug dealer or a wanted fugitive? What if you think you are walking into a regular garden variety DV and you are met with a shotgun blast at the door? Police routinely say the DV calls are the most dangerous, yet the solution is to send sociolgy majors?

All I see is unarmed people going in harm's way. Therefore some will die. This is NOT the type of job I want for anybody I care about. TBF, neither is cop.

We have a movement to eliminate the police. Stupid and pointless of course. Has there ever been a policeless society. Even small tribal bands had somebody who enforced the norms.

Again, if you're walking into a regular garden variety DV and you are met with a shotgun blast at the door... then armed or not isn't going to change the outcome... you're shot... PERHAPS if they think you're not armed, they'll be less inclined to shoot?

I'm not in favor of eliminating police... not remotely... I'm not in favor of defunding them (I might even spend more) and I'm not in favor of taking away tools from them.... I just think that large portions of what they do requires better people skills and fewer guns. When I see these videos of hipsters 'challenging' the cops, refusing to get out of their cars for a simple traffic stop or whatever... I go back and forth between the 'why not just go along' and the 'you still have rights'. I ultimately come down on the idea that we still have rights... and refusing to give up those rights isn't (imo) cause for taking them by force.

If a cop came to your door for a violation of a city ordinance on signage in your yard and asked you to step outside or to let him in... should you be able to decline? Does declining give him probable cause? Why is a car any different? If you suspect he's drunk, get another cop (there are almost always more than one if it starts to escalate at all), get an agreement on the symptoms and proceed, based on that evidence of a crime.

Here is the problem I have... If you're a criminal and you say no and he forces you to comply... then you've got a chance of getting your criminal activity thrown out of court... so the criminal has an incentive to use the law and decline... and you, the law abiding citizen does not. The law actually works somewhat against you, since your use of it somehow implies criminality.

It's their job to prove their case without your help... and honest people... MORE than criminals... should be allowed to protect themselves.