(06-08-2020 07:02 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:53 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:36 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-08-2020 06:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  If you don't want people stopped for speeding or broken tail lights or "minor" drug offenses, change the laws, not the police.

If you don't want police responding to domestic violence, pass laws making beating your wife legal.

I know the “you” above is generic, and not directed at me (since I haven’t advocated for any of those things), but since the overall idea being presented seems reasonable, I want to push back a little.

Are there currently no responsibilities that fall on the police that you think other professionals could handle more appropriately? The roles of cops are really, really broad, and perhaps we’re asking too much of them across the board and should identify areas where we can reduce the burden. I’m thinking of things like responding to drug overdoses, suicidal individuals, welfare checks, deal with the homeless, deal with people with mental health issues, etc.

I would say that all the responsibilities you called out are very traditional police roles - dealing with violent criminals (domestic abuse) or legal infractions (traffic laws or drug offenses).

I do agree that some issue should be solved by adjusting the law (drug offenses), but I don’t think that the idea of evaluating and changing the role of police is as outlandish as you appear to think it is.

I think you do not take those responsibilities from police until you have something else in place to deal with them. Just cutting funding without adding anything else is a recipe for disaster.

Taking your suggestions as list:

responding to drug overdoses, - don't EMTs do this now?


suicidal individuals, - kind of depends of the situation doesn't it? A guy on the 10 story threatening to jump is a danger to the public. A person threatening their mother that they will commit suicide if they can't go to the prom? Who do you think should take that call?

welfare checks, - sometimes when checking on people, bodies are discovered and the place is immediately a crime scene. Other times, they are ill or injured, and an ambulance is called. other times it is just worry. What professionals do you think should do welfare checks instead?

deal with the homeless, - depends on what you mean by "deal with". Homeless people can be a problem in many different ways for many different people.

deal with people with mental health issues, - basically covered under suicidal. As you know, my sister has mental health issues, and used to call the cops 100-150 times a year to report burglaries in progress, rapes, etc. Which professional agency do you think should handle those calls?

I don't disagree that many of these of these problems might could be handled better by others, but which situations, which others, and how do you tel the difference. Give me all that before just cutting funding.

Personally, I am fine with decriminalizing marijuana, but not heroin or other more powerful drugs.

I agree that having specifics would be necessary before fully supporting a movement. Same way that completely dismissing an idea without knowing the specifics is ill-advised.

I don’t know enough about these movements to know whether or not they provide that level of detail. But as I said, I agree with that general idea that there are some responsibilities done by cops that could be better handled by other individuals. You seem to want to fight that idea tooth and nail, and I’m not sure why. Just look at the effor you put in to trying to explain away why each of those roles is not obviously best filled by non-police officers.

Here I thought we were having a discussion, and you think I am making an effort to explain away some of the roles police officers play. An effort? It is just the facts.

I am pointing out that it is more complex than just saying these duties should be handled by "other professionals". I even asked you which other professionals you thought should take those calls. There is a crazy man on the sidewalk threatening to kill himslef. Who do you call? Ghostbusters? The mental health corp? Doctors withourt Borders? You presented nothing. You fell back to your default position -slander OO.

I am willing to examine other methods, but no other methods have been advanced by the "defund the police" movement, other than sometimes the vague usage of 'other professionals, which you seem to have picked up on. Not exactly details.

Give me a workable plan and I will go over it. So far, nothing. Not just from you, but the whole BLM movement.