(01-13-2020 09:30 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 07:27 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-13-2020 06:00 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  This may sound harsh toward the MAC but this has to be a factor for Marshall staying in C-USA.

If a league is not P5, it needs as many of the following elements to be in place for as many of its members as possible:

* nationally relevant football programs (or at least some with history)

* nationally relevant men's basketball programs (or at least some with history)

* elite academic institutions

* locations in big cities or cool college towns

To a lesser extent:

* nationally relevant programs in baseball (or at least some with history)

* nationally relevant programs in women's hoops (or at least some with history)

C-USA has some of the elements. Rice is elite academically and has great baseball. UAB, UTEP, Charlotte and Western Kentucky have had strong runs in men's hoops. LaTech has been a women's hoops power. The two Florida schools are emerging as academic players. USM has strong baseball. Marshall has enjoyed some great runs in football. Norfolk, Charlotte, Miami, El Paso, Houston, San Antonio and Birmingham are, collectively, well known U.S. cities.

Now compare this to the MAC. Buffalo is strong academically and in decent sized city. Toledo has enjoyed some strong football. Maybe there is a baseball power or another strong academic school. But I'm not sure the MAC offers what C-USA does overally. Now what the MAC DOES offer is history/tradition, stability and a relatively tight geographic footprint. Much to be said for all that.

Still, it simply seems to me (admittedly, I'm biased as an MTSU grad) that C-USA brings so much more to the table than the MAC. As such, Marshall will stay put.

Yes. You're biased.

Miami is one of the original "public ivies." Its arguably a better undergraduate institution than Ohio St. Ohio and Miami were both founded in the early 1800s and are among the 10 oldest public universities in the country. In business programs, NIU, CMU, WMU, Miami and Ohio all do pretty well. I think USA Today may have changed their classifications this year, but MAC did have 7 ranked "national schools" vs. 4 in CUSA and only 1 "regional school" vs. 2 in CUSA.

NIU is just outside Chicago and EMU just outside Detroit. Kent is in the Cleveland suburbs and Akron is just outside. Miami is in the Cincinnati MSA and about midway between Cincinnati and Dayton. Ball St. is just outside the Indianapolis MSA. Those are pretty well known cities. Athens and Oxford are both nice college towns.

MAC hasn't had the basketball runs the CUSA schools have had, but the CUSA hasn't either in the last 30 years. CUSA is much better in baseball. But MAC is better in hockey.

Half the CUSA hasn't been FBS for 15 years continuously. Only Rice, UTEP and USM have been FBS for more than 30 years. Only Buffalo from the MAC has been FBS for less than 30 years. 7 different MAC teams have been ranked in the final AP poll (not counting Marshall), Toledo and Miami on multiple occasions. Miami has two top 10 finishes. Toledo has the 2nd longest win streak since WWI. Only 4 CUSA schools have been ranked-Marshall (2 of 3 times in MAC), WKU once, USM 3 times and Rice (but not since 50s).

I definitely showed some of my bias and ignorance. Great catch with Miami (Ohio). An excellent school.

And this is a strong point you make: 7 different MAC football teams have been ranked in the final AP poll.

As to the locations of the MAC universities, if you're going to include suburbs or towns located near cities for MAC schools, you've got to add Nashville (MTSU) and Dallas (Denton) to the list I gave for C-USA.

I still contend C-USA has a more interesting mix of all the elements I listed earlier. But it's not as wide a gap as I had thought and your points have convinced me.