(11-20-2019 12:46 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  

(11-20-2019 12:17 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Where are we today on as the impeachment world turns? More speculation and innuendo and little to no actual facts? Any crimes actually come out? Note that a quid pro quo is not necessarily illegal. All foreign policy involves some type of quid pro quo.

LOL!

The narrative used to be "The call was perfect. NO QUID PRO QUO"

Now it's, "Well, it's probably quid pro quo, but it's not illegal"

Sure, all foreign policy involves some carrot and stick approach to get foreign goverments to do what we want. Trump crossed the line when he used American assets to pressure Ukraine to do something not in the nation's best interest, but for his own personal gain.

Trump knows he can't beat Biden unless he muddies the water a bit. He needs to face off against someone as corrupt or more corrupt than himself to have a chance in 2020. That's why he's fishing to force a narrative that the Biden's need investigating, even though the facts aren't there. He NEEDED Zelensky to publicly announce an investigation into the Bidens in order to stain him and help his chances in 2020. He NEEDED Zelensky to publicly announce an investigation into the 2016 election in order to make himself feel better about having been put into office with the help of the Russians.

First there was no quid pro quo on the call. Others are asserting they FELT there was a quid pro quo outside of the call although no one can point to any actual evidence of that. It's not clear that a quid quo pro actually took place (but as you said all foreign policy involves a carrot and a stick). It's not clear that Ukraine was ever pressured. Their president says no pressure and may not even have been aware aid was on hold prior to it being released (without Ukraine having to do anything I might add). Aid to multiple countries was on hold as part of a general skepticism of foreign aid. It would be America's interest to know if a prior administration VP misused his office in order to shutdown a criminal investigation of the company his son worked for. Especially when that VP bragged on video about getting the prosecutor fired. That same prosecutor recently signed an affidavit saying he was fired due to pressure from Biden on Ukraine due to the investigation into Burisma.

I'm very interested what will happen to the Democrats case for impeachment if actual evidence standards are imposed like the Federal Rules. I expect it will crumble comically in the Senate because no one seems to have actual non-hearsay/non-speculative evidence.