For the record, I am for the universal DH so I'm not arguing the merit of the DH itself.

(02-11-2019 06:56 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  

(02-11-2019 06:29 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  

Quote:...managers look for every possible even slight advantage to win, game to game... and of course, it would be foolish to choose to use the DH if the other team's likely DH is better than yours, or if your pitcher that night is a decidedly better batter than the other team's.

So, day to day, that's something a manager has to weigh based on the stats and gut feelings he uses for all the other decisions he makes in the pursuit of winning games.

I don't think it plays out like this. In fact, I think it plays out opposite Wedge's concern. Every time a manager "gut feels" a decision to have his pitcher hit, and loses, he'll be subject to second guessing by his GM and/or owner. As I said, there will be a handful of times where he does this because of special circumstances, but it would likely be dictated by the teams' analytical departments and I doubt sending the pitcher to the plate will come up very often. The idea of sitting your DH because the other DH is better? That's going to play really well in the clubhouse. Or how well the pitchers hit? When do you think pitchers are going to practice hitting, now that all managers can use a DH? A hell of a lot less than they do now, and that ain't much. What you describe will last only a couple of seasons as pitchers hit less and less.

Maybe you watch a different game... one where managers DON'T make batting changes and substitute one hitter for another on the basis of being just 10-20 points better... or even DON'T sub a lefty for a righty JUST to play the odds on the basis of handedness.

In this world, managers pay attention to every little slight potential edge.

If my DH and your likely DH are separated by 10 points difference in batting average, but your pitcher bats close to .100 and mine close to .200.... what fool manager can't do that math? What fool bench are you envisioning that can't do that math?

Just my opinion, but I think most read what you wrote and would agree you're seriously stretching, and seriously closed-minded here.

Actually, I believe Brookes Owl is 100% correct and allow me to illustrate why...

(02-11-2019 06:56 PM)_sturt_ Wrote:  Then... a common false premise is that DHs of today are the fat, old deluxe sluggers of the earliest DH generation. They aren't, or at least, that's very rare.

In fact, most DHs aren't so inept that they wouldn't be asked to play LF or 1B with some regularity as needed.

And, moreover, AL teams have long since went away from thinking of one guy as their DH...

"With David Ortiz gone, fewer primary designated hitters left in American League: There were 135 players who got DH starts for the 15 AL teams last season"
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/03/29/fe...an-league/

So, it's something that both the union and the NL owners can swallow without gagging.

As you said, there really isn't such a thing as a primary DH any longer. It's simply a position in the lineup rather than the definition of a type of player. Anyone can bat DH at any time essentially.

The home manager, unless he's given a proposed lineup that's not allowed to be changed ahead of the game, will have no real idea who his opposing manager will select to play DH in a given situation. Therefore he cannot with certainty compare averages or any other stat.

The only thing the home manager knows for certain is who he might choose to bat as DH in the lineup against the other team's starter. Now, he may very well have a good guess, but there's very little concrete information to go on because we're not talking about who you're going to play at Catcher...a position with very few realistic options.

Given that lack of information, the manager has only 2 safe presumptions he can work with.

1. It's incredibly rare that a pitcher is more skilled at hitting than position players who are required to do it regularly. Given the reality that you must score runs to win the game, any manager will want his best hitters in the lineup if possible.

2. Keeping your pitcher from hitting will allow him more time and energy to focus on his most important skill set. This is true in training and preparation, but it is also true in game action. How often do we see pitchers disinterested at the plate? How often do we see pitchers push themselves on the base path? It is standard practice that a pitcher will save himself once in a batting role so as not to risk injury or exhaust himself unnecessarily.

My final point for my position is this:

Technically, managers already have a choice in whether or not they use the DH. It's true they don't have the ability to make the choice on behalf of the other manager, but they nonetheless have an ability to refrain from using the DH should they choose.

Why do they never do it? Because it is understood that a DH gives a team an advantage and no manager would ever risk batting his pitcher in a situation where the rules don't force him to.

Back to my earlier point, you must score runs to win the game therefore offering your best lineup increases your chances of scoring and ultimately winning. To choose to bat the pitcher on the off chance the opposing pitcher was slightly more pathetic is not a good strategy for scoring runs.