(05-11-2022 02:09 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 02:00 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 01:46 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-11-2022 10:07 AM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-10-2022 02:43 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I personally find it odd to call a just fertilized egg a child, but I’m not doing that to create a euphemism to argue for unrestricted abortion.

I agree with OO, 'then what is it then'.... but I don't do that to dismiss your point either. Clearly its not a 'toddler' or a 'baby'... but it is a unique (undeveloped) human

It does bring to mind something interesting to me though..., have you ever had a 'farm fresh' egg that was bloody? Are you going to eat it?? Or would you eat an unfertilized one?? A rhetorical question for certain, but it shows the clear difference in choices that MOST people make.

I don't consider the current standard to be 'the middle'... because I don't think there are that many people advocating for 27 or 28 weeks... or 22 or 23. MAYBE there are, but I don't think so.

I think the focus on 'dates' is wrong. To me the issue should be, when did you or should you have known, and how long should you be given to make a decision, knowing that as each day passes, the 'cruel and unusual' punishment you are giving your unborn child increases. Pregnancy tests are cheap and reliable. Hand them out and encourage sexually active women or women at risk to take one, even if they don't have any 'symptoms'... and if it comes back positive... you have a week or two to get something done.

the viability of the child isn't the issue to me... It's the burden being placed on that child... because the mom won't engage in the simple act of peeing on a stick.

It’s pretty common practice to call an organisms something different depending on its stage of development. Caterpillars become butterflies. Tadpoles become frogs. They’re all based on developmental changes, and we don’t call them “undeveloped X.” I don’t find this a compelling reason to call a fertilized egg a child, or even an undeveloped child. But if people really want to do that, that’s their prerogative.

Being a butterfly or a caterpillar doesn't detract from that organism being of z species. Or alive.

A fetus is still both alive, and if a species

A human fetus, a human embryo, a human zygote, znd a full grown human ate all still alive, and all still human.

Hard to pin down "alive".

Human embryos sitting in storage for couples who have undergone IVF... are those "alive"? Is a zygote that hasn't implanted into the uterus "alive"?

This is such a hard one.

Respiration, movement, energy use, and growth aren't such hard concepts to pin down, and are generally considered to be a hallmark of life when present.

Those are all present with a zygote.

The frozen one is the only touchy point you bring up.