(12-06-2017 12:45 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 11:09 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 09:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-06-2017 08:35 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  health concerns issue is totally bogus. 4 of the 8 play just one game just like now. 4 play 2 games like 2 do now. Only 2 teams play 1 extra game. Bottom line is nothing changes for 126 of the 130 BCS schools.

I guess there should be data on whether there are more injuries in FBS or FCS? If, because FBS athletes are bigger/faster/stronger than FCS athletes, injuries are more frequent in FBS, then that would support the notion that a 16 or 24 team playoff isn't a good idea from a health POV for FBS.

If not, then not.

There is. The three service academies have done their own homework and have concluded that playing against the larger players in the P5 and top G5 schools is not sustainable for their athletes if those schools comprise the majority of their annual schedules. The average 80lbs of weight they give up across the O & D lines has significantly raised their number of injuries.

That's interesting, but that's more of a FCS vs FBS thing, small playing against big, since the Navy athletes are probably FCS sized.

But the issue here is more along the lines of, is there a difference in injuries in FCS vs FCS games, small vs small, compared to P5 vs P5, big vs big? That's what would help us know if there's a health issue if P5 went to a 16 game playoff or something like that.

Well that's precisely what the academies were looking at Quo. Only they were gauging G5 vs G5 against their kids vs P5. They found a difference there. And in most sports it's a matter of simple physics to make that determination. When velocity x mass=ft.pounds of energy that exceeds joint and bone tensile strength injuries occur. That's why 50% of all falls from 10ft are fatal. A collar bone breaks at about 3lbs of direct pressure. You can look up the stresses that bones can take as they are fairly standard. Joints depend on a lot more. How much muscle mass supports the tendons and ligaments and how flexible is that muscle around the joints. But weight is a primary contributing factor to injuries.

Those injuries caused by a force creating unnatural movement of a bone or joint obviously cause injuries at all levels. Big people inflict more injury on smaller people due to mass x velocity. Your automobile proves that when a truck hits it. In those kinds of collisions it is the inflexible parts of the vehicle (frame) that suffers the most. In humans that would be bones.

Having been a lineman I can tell you that in the trenches getting rolled up on from behind while tackling a force moving into you can do a lot of damage due to the forces to unnaturally move your joints and direct pressure against bones. My right knee can attest to that. No running back did that to me however and it didn't happen in a game. It happened in a tackling drill at practice utilizing other linemen as the ball carrier. I squared him up and his guard hit me in the side of the knee on a missed block and the tear could be heard by all on the field.

In the line people get hurt all of the time and those inflicting the injury in the vast majority of instances never intended to cause injury. I can't imagine playing against a line 80lbs heavier per man game in and game out and lasting the season.

I strongly suspect this is why they are looking to end kickoffs. 20 yards of distance to get up to full speed before the first collision is fairly brutal. Remember that in a head on collision you add the speeds of the two opposing forces. So if I can sprint at 17 mph for short distances and hit a guy head on doing the same speed that's the equivalent of a 34 mph accident. For a body that's significant. It's twice as dangerous as running into a tackling dummy at full speed.

Now with brain injuries speed and mass are a factor as well.

So I think we probably accelerated the injuries in the game when we moved to padding so efficient that it enabled faster collisions. The equipment today is also lighter which improves the players speed. So as with our society it is possible that our technology has once again and unintentionally made our lives more complicated and dangerous.

While I hated the heavy pads I had to wear back when, they did limit speed. And the helmets were so flimsy in my day that none of us were ever taught to hit with them.

I know that doesn't answer your question but maybe it will help you to get a feel for the problems. It really is fairly hard and fast from a physics standpoint.

Remember one of the finest athletes to ever dawn pads had his hip broken (roughly 15 lbs of direct pressure) and that probably couldn't have happened in the normal game if he hadn't been so muscular as to create the resistance that led to the injury. The ability to move with a hit normally keeps those kinds of pressures from being attained. But, Bo Jackson was Herculean compared to most.