(05-09-2017 04:51 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 04:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 04:15 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  JRsec,

OU will still appoint a research minded President. And the SEC will still have an academic perception problem with faculty.

I don't think it is entirely fair as there are some outstanding academic schools in the SEC. But the SEC has not made it a point, nor put any pressure on schools in the league who are not performing well academically and in research to step up their game.

So I see the SEC academic perception issue as a fixable internal problem. But so far little has been done to address it.

Most of those were charter members and in Mississippi the mission of the schools are very similar to those of West Virginia.

Apples and Oranges. The comparison is SEC vs B1G or P12. Inertia bias is not relevant. One does not have to leave one's home, but when one does they prefer to move in with the more compatible group.

SEC perception among faculty is a real issue. 3 of 4 R2 public Universities in P5 are in the SEC. The Big 12 did have steady subtle pressure ( most from Texas) which resulted in Kansas State, Texas Tech, and West Virginia investing to attain R1 status. That has not happened in the SEC.

The solution for the SEC is for a member (Kentucky is the closest) to make AAU and to push the Alabama and Mississippi school to get serious about their research rankings. So far it's all about being Southerners and continuing the stereotype that Southerners rank education lower than sports. That is the choice the SEC is making.

Stugray, your bias in relatively uninformed and relies heavily upon stereotypes and academia. Most of the issues down here have to do with initiatives within the states. Some issues, are structural in nature like that of Alabama and Georgia which mirror the issues of Nebraska but with a nuance. UAB became the medical research facility that is now independent. Georgia and Georgia Tech have their disciplines but the medical college is located in Augusta as a separate state entity "The Medical College of Georgia". Lop off those medical research funds from those two universities and it drops the research dollars of the state more efficiently upon a stand alone institution but deprives the state schools of the opportunity to have claimed those endeavors no matter what support they may be offering or not offering, in support of those stand alone medical schools. At Auburn we have cancer research that is done but since it falls under the auspices of veterinary medicine, even though the tests are used in human cancer research, the funding for them doesn't go toward AAU status.

To say the schools aren't trying is misinformed to disingenuous at best and has overtones of arrogance implied at worst. Some of these divisions of disciplines were mandated during reconstruction and need to be rewritten. But that's our fault for not bringing state constitutions up to speed.

I don't think given the current quality of diploma mill output from many of these state schools that any of our conferences have anything to crow about with regard to undergraduate preparation, and since the top students tend to gravitate to those fields that have research associated with them I wouldn't find fault with as many of our postgraduates. We didn't urbanize as quickly as the North. So every one of our states still have agricultural schools, vet schools, degrees in wood technology, etc.

It is an apples and oranges comparison. Our AAU, R1 & R2, and other such ranking services have only come into to vogue in the latter half of my life. As far as I can tell the biggest reason, outside of acquiring grants for research, for having these rankings is so that schools can justify higher tuition and attract enrollment and with regard to faculty it means more money for them. So the credentialing that you see in all work fields today is simply to force people to buy a piece of paper. The number of incompetent paper holders is staggering. Most of the hype has been to push the agenda of more bureaucratized education and every day in our workplaces we behold the woeful by product of that approach to education.

So color me unimpressed with your views. I'm sure they matter to you, but I've lived long enough to see both the good and bad that they are used to support or cloak.

When students with a masters degree from Big 10, ACC, SEC, and B12 schools show up for professional level training and can't add or subtract without a calculator, can't spell, can't properly cite sources, or in many cases compose a complete paragraph, you can't impress me with any of this. Show me a school that consistently puts out graduates with masters degrees that can read, write, add, subtract, and communicate effectively and I'll give them whatever ranking they want.

There is only one upper echelon of education in this country and it won't be found in the Big 10, SEC, PAC (except possibly with Stanford), Big 12 or ACC (except possibly with Duke). If you aren't Ivy, or a Cal Tech or MIT grad you are just fighting for upper middle class status. And there is no snobbery like Middle Class snobbery anywhere.

And as far as history goes, check your own curfew laws circa 1955-1972 in Michigan, Ohio, Illinois and other Northern heart of the Big 10 states. You will find laws on the books which were being enforced that would not permit African Americans to be found within the city limit at sunset. I know. I live there then.

Then research the riots in Pontiac & Boston that took place after busing had already been forced in the South. What you stereotype as unique to the South lasted a lot longer in the North.

Now sport, have a good one.