(07-20-2020 08:09 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-20-2020 06:51 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Regarding federal agents in unmarked cars picking up people off the street.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't somebody set a federal building on fire? That is clearly a federal offense, and the federales clearly have jurisdiction anywhere in the USA, with or without an invite from the governor or mayor. I'm guessing they had security cameras and I'm guessing they have some kind of facial recognition. It would then make sense to pick up people off the street matching the descriptions of the perps, and as far as unmarked cars, have you ever gotten a speeding ticket from an unmarked police car? Or have you ever heard of anyone being arrested by a plainclothes or undercover LEO?

As I think it was Tanq explained above, there's no violation with picking people up as long as there is some kind of reasonable basis for so doing, and as long as they are released relatively quickly. To hold someone, you need more, but there's a good chance they have more.

I really don't understand the problem here.

The problem is that lad is speaking fluent 'rhetorical flourish.'

And, I dont know what big's problem is -- he hasnt even attempted to join the issue in any substantive sense. He just apparently feels the need to go pure personal attack mode.

Sorry you feel that way - I think about the only personal issues I've denoted is how quickly libertarian posters have come to defend the actions and haven't felt the need to criticize them OR the apparent talking past each other that we're doing.

My substantive point is that the methods the federal agents are using are problematic. For starters, they've not worsened the situation in Portland, not made it better (protests have been the largest over the last few days). Secondly, they've now resorted to a detainment method associated with secret police - grabbing people off the street and throwing them into unmarked vehicles without providing them a reason for detainment until they're back at a federal facility.

If they wanted to deescalate the situation that was videoed, at a minimum they could have verbalized why the man was being detained. They also could have questioned him publicly, given that they weren't in a situation where there was a mob or rioting was occurring. Instead, they opted for the worst method - disappearing someone. This leads to an even more adversarial relationship which will NOT deescalate tension.

You're now going to fall back on the argument that this was legal and within their authority - it sure is given DHS's ability to operate within 100 miles of a border. But

I disagree with their methods and are critical of them employing them.

You seem to agree with their methods and are supportive of them employing them.