(06-24-2020 06:36 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I'm done with this Ham. You accused me of making a racial insult, which I did not do. If anyone is being "technical" here, it is absolutely, positively you.

I suggest you go back and read what I wrote. I absolutely positively did NOT accuse you of making a racial insult. I said I made an allusion to one, to make clear the connection. 'You all look alike' is just exactly what I said it was. A way to marginalize people and their arguments by lumping them into one simple group.

For someone so concerned about precision, you sure seem oblivious to it.

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(06-24-2020 05:29 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  You said.... it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck... but it's a zebra... and you were speaking of all of us, who don't look or sound at all alike, and certainly not like ducks or zebras. The allusion to the racial comment I made was to put the the idea in your head that lumping people into simple categories is inherently wrong.

OK, well "looks like a duck, sounds like a duck" (also apparently known as "the duck test" according to my google search) is a pretty well-known idiom and I suspect you certainly know I was not talking about ducks and zebras.

And again, you're being hoisted by your own petard. You entirely miss my point about your 'precision'. Idioms by their nature are not precise language... and my use of the word 'stupid' was intended to sum up in one word your specific opinion about Fox & Friends et al. I don't know what word describes using one word to 'sum up' numerous others, but it's about as close to what you actually said as your idiom is. I also said here, what I said above about the racial allusion that I made. NOWHERE did I suggest you said or did anything, other than to lump us all together as those who frequently mindlessly repeat what we've heard.... and then in with other groups that you obviously don't think much of.

Quote:Moreover, my entire ******* point was that just because the arguments of the people on here and/or Fox News (or anywhere else) sound alike does not mean the people are the same. Hence my mention of the ******* zebra. The fact that I called conservative posters on this forum "zebras" was because I was explicitly agreeing that you are not all "ducks" (aka "trumpbots" or people who repeat things they have heard from conservative/republican sources without actually thinking about what they are repeating).

Yeah, I get that you've been saying that for the past dfew posts, but it isn't remotely what you said in the posts in question. As I have repeatedly pointed out and you have repeatedly ignored....

YOU KNEW we would find your comment offensive. Why would we be offended by you saying 'although you sometimes reach the same conclusions, you do not do it through mindless means'.... which is a fair summary of your comment above.

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(06-24-2020 05:29 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  You also lumped all of us in with Fox and Friends and other frequent recipients of your derision. You conveniently leave that out.

Wrong. I explicitly and repeatedly did not lump the folks on here in with Fox & Friends. Also, please point me to said derision.

Seriously?

So the tone and substance of many of our arguments on any of the significant Trump related topics on this forum are indistinguishable from theirs.... You're amazed at how offended we are at the suggestion that we are Trump supporters, which means you know you are suggesting that... and we look like ducks and sound like ducks, but 'you guess' that this is the one time where we are not ducks...

THAT comes across to you as 'making the SPECIFIC point' that we are NOT like them? It sounds to me like a sarcastic... despite the fact that everything in the world points to this one conclusion... 'I guess' this is the time when up is down.

Quote:I have re-read that post 20+ times over the last few days and I still don't know why anyone here would be insulted by it.

If the above doesn't explain it... then I'll just leave it at this again.
1) They all told you they were offended by it
2) I came in not knowing you were talking about me, and understood why they were offended by it
3) you KNEW they/we would be offended by it... and we've specifically told you why. I understand you don't accept our responses.... but they are valid nonetheless.

I'll give you a quick reminder of at least a few of them... summarizing...

A) Almost? None of us intend to vote FOR Trump. Most of us intend to vote 3rd party. We WOULD vote AGAINST Biden if necessary. That is not a Trump supporter

B) Most of the charges we 'defend' Trump against are because the charges simply aren't valid or are petty... and are merely meant to push the 'get Trump out' campaign of the left.... which vicariously elects the only person in our minds 'worse' for the country.... whom democrats themselves have 'passed' on half a dozen times themselves. There is a meme going around right now about how after 'joking' that slowing testing would reduce the rate of positive results, Trump is now cutting funding for Federal test centers ignoring that there was talk of scaling back the Federal testing efforts as early as late March as the states became more capable, and that it was the CDC's plan all along to do just that. One can argue that 'the joke' was in poor taste or poor timing... one can argue that the plan to handle testing this way was wrong and it should be a federal task 'forever'... but that's not the argument. The argument is that it is some sort of backhanded/underhanded/sneaky way to manipulate the data. That's not a valid argument, based on the facts.... unless someone things that when the CDC set the whole thing up, they knew this would happen and planned on supporting Trump rather than doing their jobs.

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(06-24-2020 05:29 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  You absolutely didn't say you thought I was a moron, You more accurately (but still a mild paraphrase) said that my opinions were often indistinguishable from those of morons and that caused you to wonder exactly how smart I was.

I never called anyone a moron or stupid. You read that into my posts. Don't read things into my posts that I did not write and did not intend and you will be happier for it.

Wow, Mr Precise... talk about sauce for the goose, sauce for the Gander. I VERY CLEARLY said you didn't say that... and I VERY CLEARLY said what you said. You didnt use the word 'morons' either, but I think that fairly sums up your impression of TrumpBots, Maga-Hat wearers and Fox&Friends. Again, if you'd like to choose a different adjective, feel free to provide it. You repeatedly decline, and I suspect it's because as I suggested, whatever it is, it's NOT a flattering term.

Quote: "So far, you're doing a pretty good job of suggesting that you are at least incapable of understanding basic statements from me."

You prefer to argue the minutia, like whether you used this word or that... but you have yet to address the basic tenant that you do not not hold those people in high regard, so any comparison to those people is not 'favorable'.

Seems like a HUGE deflection with all of this indignation over not having used some specific word.

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(06-24-2020 05:29 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I do find it odd that you are so much more worked up about my opinion that you consider those groups to be 'stupid'... which I'd note, you haven't denied.... you merely said that you didn't use that specific word.... since I didn't in any way apply that term to you... nor did I say that you applied that term to us...

So now I am supposed to deny things I never wrote and never meant? OK, I deny that I think those folks are stupid. I do think it is unwise to just repeat things without researching them yourself and/or putting your own thought into the issue and/or consulting diverse sources on the topic. I do think there are plenty of people on both sides who merely repeat what they have heard elsewhere. I don't think anyone on this forum does so, which is exactly what I have been writing since 6/21.

More deflections.

All you keep doing is denying the use of specific words. You don't even deny that those words are 'close enough'... just that you didn't use those specific words. I'm waiting for you to provide a description of that group consistent with your derision of them over the months that makes it 'not an insult' to be included among them... or to be frequently indistinguishable from them.

That's the whole point, and you keep dancing around it. You keep saying you don't know why we're offended... and we're telling you it's because you said you find our tone and arguments frequently indistinguishable from theirs... that we look like them and sound like them and defend them.... and you don't think much of them, which implies that you frequently don't think much of us.

Honestly describe your opinion of those groups... consistent with your comments on here about them... and then tell me it's not an insult for someone to be 'indistinguishable in tone and content' with them.

If you're telling us we're wrong, and that you actually think very highly of those people, then okay... NOW we're wrong to be insulted... but that's going to be a better shark jump than Fonzie's.

(06-24-2020 05:29 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  You clearly don't think much of those people based on what they believe... and despite our denials, you apparently STILL believe that we all fairly regularly simply parrot what we've heard them say.

Again, this is literally the exact opposite of what I wrote.

No reason to do a point-by-point of the rest of your comment, though I did read it all. I think my responses above and in other posts can do as much as I can to explain my view. If they are not sufficiently clear, maybe just time to move on. Maybe I am just not expressing myself clearly on this one.
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Saying we parrot them vs saying our arguments are indistinguishable from them are NOT 'exact opposites'. They are minute, immaterial and trivial distinctions without a difference.