(06-23-2020 05:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(06-23-2020 01:16 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I agree with you that many countries, particularly the USA, Russia, Brazil, and certainly some European countries as well, haven't handled this nearly as well as I would have expected and hoped given how inevitable/predictable a virus like this was. It is unfortunate that the lack of planning and slow reaction to the virus resulted in the extreme economy-crippling measures that were required. I'd like to say that if we could go back and do it over again, we would all handle it better. Then I walk around and see hardly anyone with masks (CDC screwed up that early recommendation for sure!) and plenty of large gatherings and realize maybe people (or Americans?) are just too stupid and stubborn to do what is necessary to avoid having to shut things down.

But you overlook the real problem. The "lack of planning" and "slow response" were inevitable because we don't have anybody set up to respond to emergencies of any sort--medical, hurricane, earthquake, wildfire, tornado, oil spill, you name it. We just don't. FEMA isn't set up to do it, despite its name. They are bean counters, other folks respond, and they pay the bills. CDC and FDA obviously proved that they aren't set up for it either. We have nobody.

And until we have somebody identified to handle it we're always going to have a "lack of planning" and a "slow response."

OK, so we supposedly had this great "Pandemic Roadmap" that was supposed to guide us through this, and we supposedly "ignored" it. Have you read that "Roadmap"? It has a lot about directing traffic among DC bureaucrats, but it contained virtually nothing of use in this situation. What were our problems? Initially, lack of testing. Why? We didn't have any tests, we didn't have anywhere to conduct testing, and we didn't have anybody to do the testing. Later, shortages of hospital beds and particularly ICU beds. We also had a shortage of masks and other protective gear. How do you prevent that? You have people identified to respond and you train them to respond. When they have to simulate masks and protective gear because we don't have any, pretty soon they figure out that we don't have any f-ing masks. What did the "Roadmap" say about any of those issues? Zero, zip, nada.

I've said it before, but here is my idea. Repurpose the National Guard from a backup Army reserve to a civil defense and emergency response team as its primary mission. Swap out tanks and artillery at National Guard armories for backhoes and bucket trucks. And train the hell out of them on responding to whatever disasters are expected in their areas. Every disaster has a medical element, so their medical capabilities should be pretty well trained. In this case, they could have set up mobile testing tents in Walmart and Target and shopping center parking lots, and somebody could have leaned on CDC and FDA to piss or get off the pot on testing, and to allow state, local, and private facilities to get in making and evaluating tests, and we would have gotten way ahead on testing earlier. They they could have set up mobile field hospitals to take the overload off hospitals. Then we could have identified everybody at high risk, basically everybody in nursing homes and assisted living facilities, and kept them away from anyone with the disease. Finally, we could have looked around and seen that Japan was getting great results by not shutting anything down but just having everybody wear masks, and we could have said, "OK, if you want to open, then everybody has to wear masks. As long as you enforce that, you can open." Given a choice between masks and staying closed, I think the vast majority of people would gladly wear masks.

That's how I would have done it, and I think we would have been far better off.

The one eventuality my approach doesn't address directly is the oil spill. But back in 1993 or 1994, there was a proposal to create spill containment teams (Sea Guard?) with proper kit around every offshore producing or oil shipping area, and fund them with a dollar surcharge on every barrel of offshore or imported oil. Nothing ever happened with it. Had we had those in place, the BP blowout wouldn't have been exactly a non-event, but it would have been pretty close.

Pretty sure I have read all this before so I didn't bother reading it again. I understand your position and disagree with it. But if you will recall prior conversations, I can't "prove" it would have made a difference or how much difference it would have made. All I can say is that the EU and USA have similar populations and geographic size and the EU is looking much better at the moment than the USA, and we have a much stronger central government then most of Europe combined. If you think we suck that much, that's on you. I think we could have done considerably better, but accept that I cannot convince you. You won't convince me either on this one, so don't waste the energy or time.