(06-09-2020 07:47 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-09-2020 07:03 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Funny, that 'tenacious conservative strategy' is the one promulgated by the pastor of the black church that I do pro-bono for. Amazing the tentacles of that invidious, under the radar, conservative, racist effort.

Hate to tell you, the violent crime rates arent fiction. They are objective fact.
The rates of out of wedlock children arent fiction. Again objective fact.
The rates of incarceration arent fiction. Again objective fact.
Do you really think that the above have *zero* effect on the African American situation? Seriously?

Your response: its all a lie. None of that has *any* effect on the socio-economic plight of the African American community.
Its all racism. Systemic and pervasive racism, in fact.

Again, I wish there was a head slap emoji.....

Why not both?

You seem to want to jump up and down refuting the idea that systemic racism, or it seems racism in general, is a problem that still lingers and substantially impacts black Americans. But you continue to brush aside the quantifiable evidence that shows how our justice system treats people differently based on their race.

The 'end result' of a 'jaunt through the legal system" can be accorded a few outcomes -- jail, prison, diversion, probation, acquittal, or dropping of charges.

The best 'control' in results in 'how the justice system treats people' seems to be economic status -- not race.

That is --- poor white crackers are equivalent to poor black crackers; and equivalent to poor chicano crackers; and equivalent to poor yellow crackers.

Correspondingly, the legal 'results' for rich white crackers are equivalent to rich black crackers; and equivalent to rich chicano crackers; and equivalent to rich yellow crackers.

And, not surprisingly rich better than upper middle class; upper middle class better than lower middle class; lower middle class better than poor xx cracker. Across the board.

There is no effective difference between rich white cracker and rich black cracker in that roulette game.

If the thesis of 'blacks get the shaft relative to whites', the pervasive effects of the the supposed 'black discrimination' would be evident across socio-economic levels. They simply arent.

The biggest driver in the 'blacks get pegged with prison at a far greater rate than whites with the same crime' is underlied by the simple issue that the far greater number of blacks being paraded into the legal system are those whom are from the worst part of of the socio-economic system.

Quote:You do note that there are structural issues that negatively affect the black community. What if there are both issues rooted in systemic racism AND some structural issues the black community has that need to be addressed? And what if, here me out, some of those structural issues are exacerbated by systemic racism?

Look, I will go one further -- many of the socio-economic factors *are* have roots of some sort in historical vestiges of systemic racism.

If you want to tie in a vast cabal of current systemic racism --- then toss me the gist of it. 93's claptrap isnt such evidence of current systemic racism.

Quote:Take for example the nuclear family - if we know that black men are disproportionately incarcerated compared to white men, doesn't that logically mean that there are likely less fathers around to fill out a nuclear family and provide stability?

Perhaps you didnt note my comment that the cycle of violence, crime, incarceration, and the systemic and destructive creation of a norm of fatherless households is, in fact, a self-perpetuating cycle. It is, in mathematical terms, a non-degrading feedback cycle.

But your comment above takes the issue of 'black men being disproportionately incarcerated compared to white men' (which is very true) and inherently posits that that outcome is a product of 'systemic racism'. Kind of a large leap there. Especially with the issues on socio-economic status and its relationship to outcomes of incarceration noted above.

If you want to play the 'well blacks are disproportionately incarcerated compared to white men' card, then lets look at what they are put there for. They *dont* spend years at a time in the pen for 'smokin a doob.' They *are* disproportionately incarcerated for homicide, violent crime, and major drug offenses (i.e. dealing and intent to sell beefs, as opposed to user beefs). To a major extent.

For example, blacks account for a majority (or near majority) of all homicide and non-negligent manslaughter convictions, all the while making up about 12% of the population.

Same rough proportion for robbery . In total, blacks were convicted of close to 40% of those crimes delineated as 'violent'. In almost every category of crime, blacks batted well above their representation in the population in almost every major crime (excepting arson, interestingly). (source FBI cime statistics 2017, the most recent one I could dig up)

So yes --- blacks *are* disproportionately incarcerated. The disproportional incarceration in the 'big baddies' so to speak isnt based on racism. I think the Chicago gang banger episodes of the last number of months show that the commission of the 'big baddie' felonies isnt sparked by some inherently evil cabal of white crackers promoting systemic racism just because they can.