(08-23-2018 03:03 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 02:50 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 01:44 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(08-23-2018 08:37 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I am in favor of the rhetorical wall. I oppose the physical wall, A physical wall is impractical. If I still had my importing business, the wall would run through two of my branches' parking lots. It would also wall off my cousin's cattle from their water source, the Rio Grande. Granted, my cousin's ranch is often used for illegal crossings. Every month a couple of bodies are found.

As to the employment, it is a good idea. But it is not giant industry that benefits most from the cheap labor. I knew a guy who had a roofing business, ran about 10 crews. Every crew was 100% Hispanic. (no idea of the split between American citizen, legal immigrant, and illegal immigrant) he said he had never had a black or white person apply.

The illegal I sold the house to had been employed for 16 years at a lumber yard.

In lieu of employer penalties, I would have a requirement that for any worker that could not show American citizenship or proof of legal residence, the employer would be required to withhold 25% of their gross. If he did not, he would be liable for the shortfall + other $$$ penalties. That would encourage the employers to comply, encourage the legal immigrants to get and show theiID, and get the income from the illegals. It would also encourage the legals to file a tax return to get their refund.

If money is the attracttent, use loss of money as the deterrent.

My feelings are quite mixed on this issue.

I think we should hold employers liable if they knowingly and willingly do something illegal. If they are not willing to pay a wage that will encourage an American citizen to apply, then they need to rethink their business model. And if enforcement is stepped up, then all employers will be dealing with the same issue. I don't have much sympathy for someone who complains they can't find citizens to do their job - I've worked with too many American non-O&G drillers that break their back, but do it because they make a decent, to believe that there are no Americans willing to do the work, it's just that they aren't willing to do the work for the current pay.

But from a pragmatic perspective, the easiest answer is to make it easier for the illegal immigrants to be working here legally. You could make seasonal worker visas more prevalent and easier to obtain. And if a check-in component is added, we'd likely see a decrease in people over staying their visas. I listened to a great podcast that talked in depth about how seasonal migration used to effectively result in a net-0 permanent illegal immigration flux, but once it became more dangerous and difficult to cross the border, the migrants that would come for seasonal work stayed because there was too great of a risk of getting caught the next season if they went back home. This could help increase the supply of people willing to work a lower wage, reducing the economic burden on the employer.

Guest worker/seasonal worker visas are good ideas, and I support them. How do you plan to make them go home when the visa expires? At that point, they change from legal to illegal, and we are back to where we are now. Whatever system we use, we need to control who is here, and send the noncompliant ones home.

As for offering a wage high enough to attract workers, would you leave your current job to work as a roofer for 125% of your current salary? Is that amount attractive enough to get you on a roof in the hot sun? Ok, stay in your air conditioning, and safe office.

People choose jobs for a lot of reasons. Whatever is offered, has to be much more attractive than what they have now. Not going to give up my benefits for a few dollars more.

But, going back to roofing, raising those wages raises the costs of new roofs, which raises the cost of insurance, which raises the cost of living, which raises...

Hmm, didn't somebody say the higher MW would be inflationary?

If you want these jobs to be taken by Americans, reduce the supply of of illegals willing to work cheap, and let the laws of supply and demand take over.

If, on the other hand, you don't mind having nonamericans do this work, let them in on guest worker visas. Fine with me.

Automatic withholding of at 20% for those with legal guest worker visas, 35% for those who cannot produce some confirmation of legality. The former encourages the filing of tax returns with big refunds, the latter reduces the attractiveness of being here illegally with smaller take home pay.

If you make the migration easy, it's likely that they won't want to stay. I can forward you the podcast that discusses this issue if you want. But in short, if your entire life is in Mexico and you're just looking for work, you want to go home in the off season, and you'll do that if there is no real cost to crossing the border.

Completely disagree.

If you make the migration easy, they may go home for Christmas, but most likely when they return they will have their wife and kids, her uncle,his cousin, and a couple of neighbors. I., E., bring their entire life with them. Whatever happened to the mantra "they just want a better life for their kids"? Well, lots of them will decide a better life for their kids is in Dallas, not some sun baked small town in Sonora.

if they came north for the planting season, then when that ends they will stay for the something else season, then for the completely different thing season, and so forth.

I've seen too many of these small towns and big cities in mexico to think there will be a lot of them going home.

Anecdote: I was shown through a house under construction. In one room they proudly showed me an intricate design on the wall. At first I thought it was wallpaper, but then they showed me the man marking in on the wall with a little tiny artist's brush. Cheaper than wall paper.

Point: If labor is cheap here, it is dirt cheap there. The more skilled there can get jobs there in factories. The unskilled will come here, where they can make a ton of money, comparatively, and if they find work, they will send for the family.

Take your drillers. Are they going to come here for a year or less, make a ton of $$$, and then move back to East Peck, Montana, when they will be hard pressed to find a job loading trucks at $10/hour, just because that is where Aunt Tillie and Uncle Elmer live?