(07-13-2018 11:36 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-13-2018 09:42 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-13-2018 09:20 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-13-2018 09:01 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(07-13-2018 07:18 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwlStill Wrote:  claiming Merkel (who grew up in East Germany) is controlled by Russia.

Isn't that what your guys have been saying about Trump? Is it more thinkable about him or more unthinkable about her?

sometimes, when Trump does/says something, I am shocked and dismayed, but if I wait a little bit, results happen that I usually like.

I wanted change, real change, not a slogan like before, and we are getting a real change in many ways. Trump may be behaving unconventionally, but he is getting unconventional results. I understand some people care more about convention than results.

In 2020, you guys can vote to go back to doing the same ol' things in the same ol' ways. I think Trump, if he decides to run, can run on his record.

What change are we getting in your mind? What good record can he run on that is based on his accomplishments?

I don't think Trump has changed the way Washington works, which is what he ran on. He pretty much made the swamp swampier by putting his children/family in positions of power, and nominating heads of orgs, like Pruitt, that were damn near corrupt.

He's passed a tax bill, nominated 1 Justice to a stolen seat, and then another to Kennedy's - outside of that, what legislation has he helped pass?

He has gotten us into a tradewar with China and is likely about to get us in another with our allies - both of which will adversely affect rural areas disproportionately unless federal or state governments provide them with aid.

Maybe he ran on draining the swamp - originally a Pelosi phrase, isn't it - but the clamor from your side is that he doesn't do business as usual, but instead does it in ways different from his predecessor. Y'all need to make up your minds - more of the same, or something different? I guess you think JFK made it swampier when he nominated his brother for AG. Not exactly unprecedented. At least the Trump family is not in a cabinet post. So if precedent is what you want, we have it.

As somebody who made a career in international trade, albeit primarily with one country, I am no fan of protectionist tariffs. This is one of the promises he made that I wish he would ignore, but so far he seems focused on keeping all promises. Keeping campaign promises, is of course, bad, in the sense of business as usual in the swamp. He is keeping promises at an unprecedented rate. I don't like all the promises he is trying to keep, but I am impressed he didn't just forget them on Inauguration Day, like so many of his predecessors, and like I expected from Hillary.

I think the jury is out on the tariff war. Not so long ago the Greek chorus was bemoaning the imminent nuclear war with North Korea. Maybe this will go the same way - eventually, some progress. But right or wrong, by 2020, we will have results on both these issues, and he can run on his record or y'all can run against it.
I am sorry to make the assumption that you will automatically vote for the Democrat then. I am quite likely to vote for the Republican, whoever it is, as I cannot see a Democrat I could stomach actually winning the DNC nominatiion. Is Maxine Waters or Adam Schiff on the long list? Can't stand either one. Or has the DNC already made its selection?

Trump is something new in American politics. That seems to be the crux of what the left doesn't like about him. That and his win, of course. Despite the best efforts of the Resistance (the one Hillary joined), he is taking care of business. I think the 2020 election will turn more on how he does that than what the Mueller witch hunt comes up with.

I'll ask again, as your response did not touch on any specifics outside of tariffs:

What change are we getting in your mind? What good record can he run on that is based on his accomplishments? What business is he actually taking care of?

And to tackle only one part of your interesting response, it's much more than Trump just being different that the left doesn't like - and it's rather shocking that you don't realize that his policies, his nepotism, his profiteering off the office, his laziness, and the language he uses are what the left does not like about him. It's much more than just being "different."

Did you lift that last paragraph verbatim from CNN or the NYT?

Nepotism - usually that refers to hiring unqualified relatives. The ones he is using are all highly capable individuals. If he put Barron on the IRS payroll for six figures, that would concern me. But nepotism is nothing new on either side of the aisle, is it?

What profiteering? Is he buying national parks for a song? Selling them?

What laziness? He seems pretty active to me. I couldn't have kept up with his schedule 20 years ago.

The language he uses sometimes is unprecedented, I agree. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. We have already had a speak-nice, do-nothing president.

As I said earlier, by 2020 we will have outcomes of a lot of things that are in the works. Whatever we have in the way in North Korea, NATO, and other foreign policy will be known. I don't understand why you need an assessment as of July 13, 2018. Are we not going to do anything else for two years? On NK, and NATO, what we have is so far, so good. Better than what we had four years ago. Where those will be two years from now, hope better still. On trade wars and tariffs we will see results for good or bad by 7-13-2020.

We will have a resolution of the immigration crisis, for better or worse. We will have the nonresults of the Mueller investigation. All this on top of the results already in, the tax bill and the justices, as you note. I meant that Trump would run on his record in 2020, not today. I think he will have plenty to point to then. How about giving it a couple of years before demanding we publish his platform.

I am not so sure he will run again. But if he does, he will point to some of the things he accomplished or tried to accomplish. Your guys will be talking about his laziness and choice of language. Bottom line, though, will be the economy.