(07-11-2018 12:04 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-10-2018 09:43 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  lots of presidents for decades have wanted line-item veto power

One got it. And it was promptly ruled unconstitutional.

Clinton v. City of New York
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_v....f_New_York

Seriously asking for a line item veto is akin to asking for a personal one on one interview with the real Santa Claus.

Using that as a piece of evidence for a 'psyche of a strongman' just doesnt make any practical sense. It is like saying that Reagan's 'evil empire' comments were proof positive of his wish for a hot war with the Soviet bloc.

Sure, then cross that off this list if you want. Tanq, I buy your argument, which is that requesting a line-item veto power is not evidence of a desire to grab power, much more than Ham's, which tries to rely on an appeal to hypocrisy. Just because someone has tried something before, does not mean it was right then, nor right now. Same as the issue with Trump arguing to remove the filibuster - Reid made a massive mistake when he used the nuclear option, and him making that mistake does not mean it's OK for someone to do the same today.

Regardless, I've provided other evidence that support my initial thesis, even if I stop trying to defend this point. But in the end, it seems like most arguments from your camp will be that Trump's words don't matter, and I've had enough back and forths to know that I can't change any of your minds on that. As you've said in previous posts, you're right that Trump, at this moment, has not acted in a manner where he's grabbed power - but as I responded to illiniowl, Trump is perhaps the most vocal POTUS in modern history, and that's resulted in us know his desire to push his agenda through by changing democratic norms and how well he regards despots across the globe.