(06-23-2018 02:38 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-23-2018 01:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Huh? OO, I provided you three examples of better words Trump could have used in place of “infest.” Why suggest I couldn’t?

And way to overstate what I want and ask me to defend a position I never made - that we “need more illegals.”

And why a strange argument to try and make by stating that illegals don’t want to pay federal taxes. Isn’t a main thrust of the RNC platform that they don’t want to pay more federal taxes? I imagine millions of Americans would morning pay federal taxes if they could avoid it...My point is not that illegals want to pay taxes, it’s that, overall, illegal immigrants pay a lot in federal tax because of the variety of jobs they end up being employed to do. And the fact that they do pay federal income taxes refutes the notion you were trying to put forth that they do not. If you read the article, it explains how many illegal immigrants end up paying those taxes without real social security numbers. You can try and deride the facts I presented as lies if you prefer, but that seems like just wanting to stick your head in the sand.

So my thesis is that illegal immigrants, as a whole, are not a dangerous drain on society - and that because of that, using less rigid processes, such as zero tolerance jailing policies, are bad. We should instead rely upon more humane policies and ones that do rely more upon illegal immigrants living in our communities until they are either granted legal status or deported.

As to my personal experience - it’s rather limited. I’ve likely worked side-by-side with a few in the field, I’m sure I’ve eaten lunch or dinner next to some, or been served by illegal immigrants. Why do you ask?

I guess I missed your three examples. I'll go back and look.

You are missing the point on the taxes. You want to pay the least you can legally, don't you? I certainly do. But i could pay a lot less if the government did not know I was here and could not trace whether or not I had paid taxes, and had no return to check for errors and omissions. For example, if I was to work for XYZ company, but had my W-2 issued to a fake name with a fake SSN at a fake address, I could save a lot by just not filing a return. Of course, I abandon all my FICA/Med they took out, but that is not subject to refund. any withholding I was unable to avoid would go away too, but I can minimize that by claiming a lot of exemptions. Not that hard to game the system if you don't legally exist.

Now the thrust of the Republicans, and me, is that we don't want to pay more, but we will pay what we are legally required to pay. I fill our my tax form every year.
So the difference, ironically, is between being legal and complying with the tax law, and being illegal and evading it.

Does you link show how much FIT is paid by illegals because they filed 1040's, or is that total just abandoned money? Because if an illegal abandons $3K to avoid paying $7K, I fail to see how that is beneficial to us. A legal person, alien or citizen would file and pay the $7K. That is a plus $7K to us, while you are counting the $3K abandoned as a plus. maybe it is a plus, but a smaller plus than it should be.

I asked about your experiences with illegals to gauge where your ideas come from. If you consider being served by them an important experience, that tells me a lot. You know these people like I know Russians - not much. My first memory of illegals was my Hispanic grandmother warning me to stay away from them. I have worked with them, side by side, shared lunch and work breaks with them. I have hired and fired them. I have rescued some from a bad situation, including a three year old boy. I have had them for friends, and enemies. I have had them steal from me, and give me a ride when I desperately need it. I have sold a house to one, and carried the note. I have run off squatters from my land. It hurt me to be mean to people who nowhere else to go, but I had small children and wife to consider.

I know and understand them as people - I think you see them as "a" people, not individuals. More contact with them, and while your compassion will be stoked, so too will some of the idealism erode at the same time.

I spent decades traveling the poorest and most rural parts of Mexico. I have been in the back alleys of poor parts of bad towns. I have looked down the barrels of guns.
I have spoken with the rich and poor alike. I tell you, the rich like where they are. it is the poor, the uneducated, the unskilled, and sometimes the unscrupulous that want to leave. And as we have discussed many times before, it is not a race or ethnicity that defines the high-crime, high-danger places in the US, like "parts of chicago". It is poverty. So why are we importing poverty?

We’re “importing poverty” because that is an integral part of our country’s founding. Being a beacon of hope for all who want to better their lives and contribute to society.

We have immigration laws because it isn’t smart to have Ann open border policy - as you’ve mentioned, not all immigrants seeking to enter the country (either legally PRM illegally) are savory characters. We also want to make sure that the majority of immigrants entering the country will be able to be gainfully employed somehow. And our current system that prefers immigrants with technical skills is a good approach, but also allowing those without those technical skills is fine by me - as your experience has informed you, plenty of those impovershed people we’re importing work harder than many Americans who are legal residents.

And if you want to know what’s in the article, try reading it.