(12-05-2017 06:36 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 06:25 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(12-05-2017 03:46 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I think the minimum wage is ineffectual in the long term.

Short term it dries up numbers of opportunities in the lower income brackets. Further, it is basic Econ 101 that price controls as both maximums and minimums produce highly sub-optimal markets for the markets in which controls are set. But the classic contrary response to the pretty much set-in-stone price control math is that "labor isnt responsive to supply/demand microeconomics" (making it unique to every other market in existence). (Funny how we loop back to one of my basic questions to you yet again...)

Example: because of the push to 15 dollars, it is now cost effective to replace cashiers at fast food restaurants with kiosk-style ordering.

Example: look at the numbers of restaurants closing in 15 dollar jurisdictions like Seattle and San Francisco.

Long term it is a non-event. Long term all wages and prices of goods and services are ballooned up by the minimum wage, as is long term prices as producers realize that consumers will absorb more and more of the excess cost. So long term, it doesnt matter whether the mandated price floor is 3 dollars, 9 dollars, 100 dollars, or 90 million Maduros, since an apple will run 30 cents, 90 cents, 10 dollars, or 9 million Maduros in the long term based on this diktat.

So I am against it for the short-term havoc. that it wreaks on those that it supposedly is put into place to help. In the long-term, it is a 'who the f-ck cares', *except* for the fact that a non-market entity is putting arbitrary 'lines in the sand'.

It simply boils down to I am a very ardent Chicago School economics type guy. (But I try to hide my blood and life sucking fangs so I dont scare little children as much....)

sometimes, taking things to ridiculous levels is illuminating.

If we raise the MW to $100/hour, will all of a sudden everybody in the country be rich? Will a 200K MW make all the burger shovers and pancake flippers well to do? Maybe for a few minutes. But quickly, prices will adjust, pay ladders will adjust, and all we will have done is inflate the currency. The people on the bottom of the pyramid will still be on the bottom of the pyramid, and still unable to to make a comfortable living for a family of four.

Not at all. If I raise the temperature of a room by 5 degrees F, do you think you’ll leave or stay? If I raise it by 200 degrees F, what will you do?

Good argument against the effects of global warming, that only a five degree rise is hardly noticeable.

If I put 5 grizzly bears in your house, do you leave or stay? What if it is 200 Grizzly bears?

About as sensible as your example, which is apparently meant to prove that smaller changes have zero effect. My example is meant to show there is an effect, by making it easy to see. For those who want to see.

My Wal-Mart has closed the express lanes and replaced them with self-service kiosks. Now they can let 10 customers check out at a time using only one clerk. Raise the MW to 15, and soon we will have a single checker for the building. I wonder what all those former checkers are making now in their new jobs, if they have new jobs.

I guess when you have an entrenched viewpoint to pretend, any argument that goes against what you want to believe must be ignored.