(10-25-2017 06:47 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-24-2017 11:01 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-24-2017 05:55 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-24-2017 05:38 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-24-2017 05:06 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  My point wasn't that it was the norm for small business people and entrepreneurs to be on the left, but to refute your assertion that "the left" has contempt for small business people and entrepreneurs. I simply don't think that's the case.

The guy who owns Fred's Tire Center may be a true blue liberal, but when the big guys in Austin and Washington want to tax the "rich" and stop "tax breaks for the rich", it is the guys in the middle, red and blue, who get hurt. The guys in the middle include a lot of small businesses and entrepreneurs. Then they use the excuse that didn't build that. Just adding insult to injury.
The left loves the rich, if they contribute to Democrat candidates. The really rich can avoid the taxes to a large extent, the middle cannot. But who cares?
What about you, JAAO? Do you own your business? If you do, how would you use the tax savings from tax reform?

If you're in the top income tax bracket, you are not in the middle. That's $444,550+ per year (approximately 1% of all couples and 0.1% of singles [https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2016/07/20/what-tax-brackets-are-americans-in/]. So if the owner of Fred's Tires is making almost $500,000 per year, he is doing quite well and is distinctly in the "rich" category and not the middle class category. Good for him, he has earned that income, likely through hard work, but let's not suggest he is middle class when that is closer to a $50,000 combined income per year.
Or maybe I'm confused by your definition of the middle?
If you're talking about corporate tax rates, I'm not 100% sure where the democratic party stands on changes to those rates and small businesses, but I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to explicitly avoid raising taxes on small businesses.

Where did I say Fred was in the top .1%? Why that assumption?
Plus, where did I say fred was in texas? If Fred is making $500,000 in San Francisco, he might be able to afford a 1500 sq. ft. house. or he might not. Middle class is not the same everywhere.The oldest example of going after rich people and hitting the middle class is the IRA decuction. Originally, this was $2000 that, if put in an IRA account, was deductible from taxable income for everybody. Then the democrats started complaining that it just was not right that millionaires could deduct this pittance. So they decided to phase out the deduction, starting at
$25k income for singles, $40K for couples. Millionaires my ass. How about the Alternative Minimum Tax, enacted to catch about 10 millionaires. How many people paying that now? All millionaires?
Nearly every cap or phaseout designed to hit millionaires sooner or later hits the little guys. Usually sooner.

I highlighted the portion of your response I was referencing. The current Democratic conversation generally focuses on the rich being the top 1% of wealthy Americans, so I figured that was a decent starting place.
And I never suggested the owner was in Texas - just that they had an income that would put them into the “rich” designation that Democrats point to.
Also, where did you get your IRA numbers from? It currently sits at $60k for individuals and $181k for couples if you don’t have a work-sponsored retirement plan. Those incomes seem fairly reasonable, but I do think the total phase out of tax deduction for single income earners at $70k seems rather low. http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/...return.asp

But your post illustrates the problem. The announced target is the 1%, but the ways to get there kick in a lot lower, like the IRA phase-out starts at $60K and ends at $70K. Lots of things that are passed based on rhetoric aimed at punishing the "wealthy" end up hitting way below that level. By the time you hit $100,000, you are getting penalized in several places for taxes. The person making $400,000 doesn't care a lot, because s/he starts being able to take advantage of shelter opportunities, but the person trying to get to that level gets hammered along the way.