(10-15-2017 04:38 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-15-2017 04:24 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Pretty much, yes, if you are left of center left. The whole of leftist political thought has its roots in collectivist theory--just like socialism and communism.
Disagree? Fine, please point out the differences.

So what you're saying is that once you go left of center you're a full fledged communist? In order not to offend you, if that is not what you're saying, and I'm misinterpreting your statement, please explain.
Because it sounds like you're saying there is no difference between believing in full blown communism and believing that some government regulation is necessary on capitalist framework.
And I have no idea what that means for social progressives. Are you suggesting that being in favor of state-sponsored gay marriage, laws protecting LGBTQ individuals from being fired for being LGBTQ, decriminalization/legalization of marijuana or other drugs all of a sudden makes someone a communist?
I understand the theory that the liberal side of the spectrum has similarities with communism/socialism, but having similarities, or even roots in it, does not mean that the political outlook IS that.

I think what I said is what is bolded, which is not the same as your mischaracterization.

I hope that pro-LGBTQ and decriminalization of drugs makes one a communist, because by that standard I am one.

What I am saying is that wholesale redistribution of income and wealth has its roots in the same collectivist philosophy as do socialism and communism--and fascism too, for that matter. And all require powerful, centralized governments to execute them. And I oppose that.

What I would call social democracy, which most of western Europe has, does have a very comprehensive safety net, but that's based upon a society taking care of its own, not upon massive redistribution. Take a look at their top individual and corporate tax rates to see a big difference. Yes, there are a few with slightly (like 5% or so) higher individual rates, but as many are actually lower, all of them have lower corporate rates. Their philosophy is everybody benefits and everybody pays. That's very different form massive redistribution. And that's where I draw the line.

I'm fine with universal health care (on the Bismarck model, not single payer) and with a guaranteed minimum income. But those are safety net things, not massive redistribution things.