(10-11-2017 04:48 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 03:22 PM)illiniowl Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 12:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:12 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:02 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  You're telling me that no one in the Democratic party, at the national level, hasn't already confronted Trump publicly?

Of course not. Clearly they oppose anything and everything he does., sometimes just because it is him. But if they want him out of there, why not put up a good candidate instead of relying on Republican factions to take him down?

I think you're misunderstanding what confront means in this case. Corker isn't running against Trump, but he publicly criticized him in a way that other Republicans have been hesitant to. And the best type of criticism, the type that can actually lead to change, comes from within, which is why NewTimes hoped that other Republicans would follow Corker's lead.

Your statement just now proves how ineffective criticisms from the opposite side of the aisle are, because supporters of Trump (or people who, at best, are OK with him), can easily brush it off as partisan politics, no matter how valid the criticism is. In the end, many on that side of the aisle can, and do, distill any criticism or opposition of the Cheeto Bandito down to the left wanting to oppose everything Trump does because he is either Trump or a Republican. But if a Republican comes out and is critical of Trump, that criticism holds more weight.

And furthermore, your comment about putting up a good candidate, that just doesn't make sense. Trump isn't up for reelection until 2020, and being that it is currently 2017, there is no reason to expect Democrats to have put forward any candidates for POTUS. Just as I thought Trump was wrong for starting to campaign in 2017, I think it would be wrong for a Democrat to official start campaigning this early.

First of all, Trump supporters and no doubt Trump himself are just as impervious to and disdainful of criticism from the (establishment / intellectual) right as the left, if not more, if not *far* more. Watch Steve Bannon's 60 Minutes interview from a couple weeks ago or, frankly, read anything Bannon's ever written. Frankly, since Trump was a New York Democrat his whole life until about five minutes ago, criticism "from within" would seem to call for a Democrat to take on that job. And Trump has shown that he *responds* to criticism from the left, for Pete's sake! Within a day of saying he was ending DACA, and getting beat up as a heartless bastard, he basically said he'd preserve it if Congress doesn't. And on repealing Obamacare, he responded to Democratic criticism of that by insisting that all the popular parts (read: superficially popular, if people aren't asked what they cost) be kept. If somebody would like to bet me that his next SCOTUS pick (if he gets one) *won't* be a massive f-you to conservatives, please let me know.

Second, I hope all this banging away at keyboards calling on conservatives to "do something" about Trump is at least cathartic, because it is all going to be so ridiculously ineffectual. He is not resigning, he is not magically disappearing, he is not going to be impeached by a Republican Congress (feel free to win back the House and Senate and give it a try in 2019, though) since he hasn't, you know, actually committed treason or any other high crime and misdemeanor. I have no doubt that there are fantasies on the left about his being assassinated, and if he is, I can just about guarantee you the killer, to the extent motivated by domestic politics and not mental illness or Islamist terrorism, will have a leftist bent. He (or she) will not remind anyone of George Will, let's put it that way. So what else would you have Republicans of good conscience do? Every appointee and staffer hands in their resignation at the same time - a variation on the old "let's all drop our pencils at once" trick from grade school? Rig up a 25th Amendment proceeding to have him declared mentally incompetent when he is clearly *not* insane, just highly unlikable - a variation on tying George III to a chair and having the Prince of Wales declared regent?

By all means, continue with the criticisms of his policies, his character, his tweets, etc., because Lord knows most of it is deserved, and by all means work to see him defeated in 2020 (although good luck with that if the economy is still up). But it is a mathematical fact that the reason he is president is because of defections by a critical mass of people in a few key states who voted twice for Obama. You don't want him again in 2020, then fix your own house, from whence he came. Physician, heal thyself.

I’m really confused as to when I waded into a debate as to why Trump won, what methods could be used to remove him from office, and so on. I thought I was just commenting on why criticisms from the right held more than the left?

Then focus on the first paragraph of my response which directly rebuts that contention, and not the second (more aimed at contentions from others earlier in the thread anyway). I maintain that the next time he acquiesces to a rightward corrective criticism will be the first. He is not FROM the right, so why would he give a flip what they think? Not dissimilar to Obama, frankly. If you are hoping to see some modulation of his behavior (akin to a leopard changing his spots, but whatever), the people who are most likely to be able to influence him are Democrats.

He has a clear weak point: He does not like being called heartless or uncaring. Which party's job is it in this country to level those charges, anyway?

McCain opposes him and gets called a fake war hero. The Bushes' disdain for him is well chronicled. Tillerson has called him a moron. Ryan and McConnell strive not to be seen with him in public. He is cogently opposed, prodded, corrected, ridiculed, denigrated, and more, every day, by National Review and other well-respected bastions of conservative thought that any other "Republican" in normal times would think twice before getting on the wrong side of. He is being investigated by a Republican-appointed special prosecutor. Not to put too fine a point on it, but the non-deplorable Republicans are doing our bit.