(04-30-2017 08:35 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 01:17 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 10:48 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:07 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:01 PM)teamvsn Wrote:  Curious what your criteria is for Lindenwood being "ready". I would think they'd want to have some conference championships before they'd want to make a move up.

How many conference titles did Cal Baptist have in the Big 2 which they don't have football so big 1. conf. titles don't even matter or GVSU and NW Mo. St. would have been D-I years ago. It's the schools w/ big dreams that can afford to do it, that do it. Belmont, Birmingham-So. and Lipscomb had big dreams and did the no longer legal double jump. TAMU-CC went from nothing to D-I. FGCU went from not a school to D-II to D-I before even getting their feet wet.

It's probably all a moot point for the schools w/ football that won't drop it like Omaha to move to the WAC or SL. The SL would have to start football and force their MVFC members to play SL football. Then there'd be 4 spots or so in each for members w/ football.

So let me ask you who now in the NAIA has big dreams that you see going to D-II soon?

I don't think it needs to be in the high profile sports, they can make their name by being strong in minor sports to get their foot in the door. Cal Baptist has won 10 PacWest championships in the last 6 years they've been in the conference, covering almost all of their sports. They've proven they can win at the D2 level. If they want to give D1 a shot, more power to 'em. I guess we can say "more power" to Lindenwood too if that's what they want to do, but if they can't win in D2 why would we suggest they go?

The former NAIA schools you mention aren't really comparable. It was a different era, and they were highly successful already. These days, NAIA is roughly equal to D2; back then, they were definitely above D2 (except possibly in football). Add College of Charleston, who went directly from NAIA power to NCAA Big Dance Cinderella. Not that big a jump 20 years ago. And back then, there was no post-season ineligibility years that can cripple programs.

I think the last 8 years have shown the NAIA members that the grass is not greener in D2, and that it takes a great deal of money to maintain the same level of success. Sources of money are endowments, booster contributions, and bundling it in with tuition when you have enough students to spread it out into a minimal increase. I think most of the ones that qualify are already gone. I haven't heard of ANY D2 applications this year... there might be, but there's no scuttlebutt. I could give an unqualified "yes, could be successful" to any school over 5000 on campus undergraduates. 3000 would be a stretch. If it DOES happen, it will likely be someone like Biola (4225 enrollment) who's making the move to re-associate with with historic rivals like CBU, APU, CUI and PLNU, or like Davenport & Purdue NW (both over 10k enrollment) who get invites. Much more likely to be schools in the NAIA's sweet spot (private under 2500) or small public directional transitioning from D2 to the NAIA.

Biola, Davenport, and Purdue NW are already moving, I'm asking about other ones that haven't already applied to D-II. C of C had to get in as an at large they weren't eligible for the TAAC tourney. They had a longer 7 yr provisional period since they were NAIA.

PWC isn't close to as good as the MIAA which may be the best D-II conf. if not the NSIC is. Really most don't care about anything other than football or bball. Some areas like out west where we are baseball is big. In the NE, Atlantic Lax is, in the North and East hockey is.

If Dominican(CA) was awesome at water polo, rowing and track, we wouldn't be clamoring for them to move up over a team w/ a decent football program or a more than decent bball program. Football, then bball drive most of the conference moves. I wonder if anyone could answer what made NJIT feel they should move up to D-I. Plus prior success in D-II doesn't equal good in D-I. Neither does not living up to potential in D-II equal failure in D-I. NDSU wasn't its dominate 80's self in 2004 when they moved. It was UND, GVSU, NW Mo. Northern Colorado won back to back titles in the late 90s and moved up to D-I and have done very little.

When would you say the NAIA stopped being the on par w/ D-II, NAIA?

I think we've gotten to the point where we're talking past each other.

I know Biola, Davenport and PNW are going D2; I referred to them because they are examples of who can go, and possibly should. Certainly DU and PNW are big enough, and there aren't any that big that remain. I think at the time that C of C transitioned it was only a 4 year period, and the NAIA allowed them to remain members and post season eligible until the final year. In other words, they had no years of post season ineligibility. Now it's a 7 year transition and can't be NAIA members after the first, so SIX years of post season ineligibility unless they join the NCCAA as well (or possibly USCCA? I don't know).

Important to remember that PNW is only 1 year old. It's all about future potential with them. Prior to this year they were two different schools, Purdue Calumet and Purdue North Central. Neither was well funded in athletics, although P-Calumet was gaining credibility.

Your paragraph about Dominican really goes to the heart of why I asked. Who cares what "we" clamor for? Your original statement that caught my attention was that Lindenwood was "ready". The real question is what do they want for their athletic program, and what would suggest to THEM that they are "ready"? I would think some athletic success at the conference level would be a prerequisite, and Lindenwood has had none. You could even say they would want a football or men's basketball conference championship, but they certainly haven't had that. If THEY think that simply being D1 would generate a lot more athletic donations and bigger crowds, more power to them I guess, most want to see some success first.

And I never said the NAIA wasn't on par with D2; I said they no longer significantly BETTER than D2. Specifically, there are no teams remaining capable of pulling off what College of Charleston did and going to the D1 Big Dance right out of the gate. I don't have a list of NAIA to D1 transitions handy, but I would put Belmont and Lipscomb just a notch below C of C, and there's been no one like that since. Houston Baptist transitioned, but they clearly have a lot of work to do before they could be considered successful.

You'd have to ask the D-2 board guys that say Lindenwood should, wants, aspires to be D-I. They need a home for football or there is no sense worrying if they're ready.

Now, there is no 7 year move. An NAIA school would have 3 yr provisional in D-II plus 5 as a full member before being able to move to D-I.

Charleston, Belmont, Lipscomb, Birm-Southern, Houston Baptist(former D-I so they got a waiver) came straight from NAIA. Ok City backed out at the end before the moratorium D-I put on future members in 2008. UVU from JUCO and TAMU-CC from not having sports.

You always say NAIA was better than D-II, funny the D-II guys said they've always been better. I look at it this way, the D-II playoff schools the last 15-20 years were better than the NAIA playoff schools for the most part, in football and basketball. The GVSUs, UNA, NW Mo, UND, N.Colos, Valdosta Sts were better than the Carrolls, Sioux Falls, Georgetown(KY), St. Francis(IN) NW Ok. Same in bball, the CSUBs, Kentucky Wesleyans, Metro St., UC Davis> Life, Ok City, G'town, Birm-So.