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NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
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joe4psu Offline
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NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
Will they...when will...how will...oh crap.

This seems very logical. There is too big a divide between the conferences to consider them the same classification isn't there? What would this really mean? I doubt that the "AQ's" will want to stop scheduling the "non-AQ's" in football. Can just football be reclassified?


Separating NCAA Division I wealth is coming as haves and have-nots become divided - Jon Solomon, al.com


...NCAA President Mark Emmert told reporters this week he has suggested to university presidents they consider changing the setup of NCAA governance to address the Division I financial gap. It's a gap where Alabama and Auburn spend more than $100 million, and UAB, South Alabama, Troy and Samford operate budgets of $25 million or less. And the gap keeps widening.

This issue isn't new to former NCAA President Cedric Dempsey. The NCAA restructured itself in the 1990s, largely due to concerns about legislative equity. The one-school, one-vote model was abandoned. The 11 Football Bowl Subdivision conferences -- including all six BCS conferences -- are now permanently on the 18-member Division I Board of Directors.

"I would suspect there's going to be either another subdivision or a separate division itself," Dempsey said. "Control and money are the driving forces."

The final straw may be the cost-of-attendance debate. The Division I board pushed through a well-intentioned rule allowing schools the choice to provide up to $2,000 a year more to athletes' scholarships. But enough members opposed it to suspend the rule.


...Conference realignment is largely about schools chasing TV dollars and positioning for future seismic shifts. The rhetoric has grown so loud that 53-year-old Kentucky basketball coach John Calipari told The Sporting News this month the NCAA won't govern four power conferences by the time he retires.

SEC Commissioner Mike Slive said he doesn't anticipate such a drastic change, but acknowledged there is "shaken confidence" from some Division I members.


...Dempsey said there have always been threats -- veiled or real -- by the power schools to break off from the NCAA.

"That was discussed even in 1996: 'If we can't have control of the (NCAA voting) structure, we'll do our own thing,'" Dempsey recalled. "I think to accomplish their goals, the threat will always be there."
03-31-2012 07:24 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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Post: #2
RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
I've been predicting this all along...
03-31-2012 07:47 AM
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dogma Offline
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Post: #3
RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
(03-31-2012 07:47 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  I've been predicting this all along...

So has a wide majority of all college football fans 07-coffee3
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2012 08:15 AM by dogma.)
03-31-2012 08:14 AM
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bitcruncher Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
It's been inevitable since the CFA formed. It was just a matter of time...
03-31-2012 08:54 AM
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ohio1317 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
One important note: The quotes said division I as opposed to division I-A. Most the football schools are fairly wealthy compared to the non-football ones even from non-AQ ranks.

Either way this works though, I think it will be a good thing. Two things that seem feared that I don't think will happen if the NCAA leads this.

1. I don't think they'll remove teams/conferences from the NCAA Tournament. This is the NCAA's golden goose and they aren't going to risk damaging it. That means that if there is subdivision changes with division I, I don't think they'll go so far as changing the post-season. More likely, the different subdivisions will simply allow for different rules on somethings like scholarships, maybe academic requirements, etc. The teams will continue to play nonconference and in the NCAA Tournament however.

2. If this does include an additional breakdown between I-A and I-AA, I don't think the separation will be as large as between I-A and I-AA currently is. I don't see the games between them decreasing and they'll probably even continue with the same bowls (and playoff :( ) structure. Again you are probably talking different rules with scholarships, maybe a little different academic requirements, etc.

All in all, I think this would probably be good because it lets us acknowledge what is already reality. If the NCAA is leading this, I don't see anyway we go a lot further and ending games between the two subdivisions or separating the bowls/playoff.
03-31-2012 09:18 AM
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cyc46 Offline
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Post: #6
RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
If they break away they risk their tax exempt status. Once you break away to chase the bank, the IRS will definitely take notice.
03-31-2012 09:56 AM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
I don't think anything will happen.
03-31-2012 10:01 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
Yup, if the Big 5 know that a playoff is inevitable, they want it for themselves without having to give auto bids to the CUSA, WAC, MWC, & MAC champs.

I really don't think they are worried about facing Congress since almost all the Flagship schools (ie the ones with political clout) will go in this move.

I also don't think they care about the losing the status of "NCAA Tournament" since they are taking all the money makers with them. There will still be Cinderellas, just now the Cindys will be schools like Alabama and Southern Cal...which will only make them even MORE money.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2012 10:15 AM by 10thMountain.)
03-31-2012 10:05 AM
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buckaineer Offline
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Post: #9
RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
This has been coming for a long time. This goes right along with the superconferences, etc. The power conferences said in the beginning that they were either going to have major changes in the NCAA such as this, or that they would break off and form their own division or even own governing body-free of the constraints they believe are in place to keep the have nots in the game with them.
03-31-2012 10:20 AM
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He1nousOne Offline
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Post: #10
RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
The question isnt really if it could happen but really the question is what are the rest of the Schools willing to give up to these Powers in order to keep things as they are. New conference dividing rules that will indirectly guarantee more realignment?

The amount of scholarships to be given out has to be a smokescreen at this point. Does it matter? Yes. Does it matter in comparison to some other issues like the one above? Nope.
03-31-2012 10:23 AM
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omniorange Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
(03-31-2012 09:18 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  1. I don't think they'll remove teams/conferences from the NCAA Tournament. This is the NCAA's golden goose and they aren't going to risk damaging it. That means that if there is subdivision changes with division I, I don't think they'll go so far as changing the post-season. More likely, the different subdivisions will simply allow for different rules on somethings like scholarships, maybe academic requirements, etc. The teams will continue to play nonconference and in the NCAA Tournament however.

While I agree that change is unlikely to March Madness, I do believe the power conferences want to see change in basketball altogether to make the regular season more meaningful. Not sure how that could be accomplished.

One proposal to the post-season I remember reading involved a lesser number of teams in the Dance and perhaps a best 2 out of 3 format in latter rounds.

Cheers,
Neil
03-31-2012 11:40 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #12
RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
(03-31-2012 09:18 AM)ohio1317 Wrote:  One important note: The quotes said division I as opposed to division I-A. Most the football schools are fairly wealthy compared to the non-football ones even from non-AQ ranks.

Either way this works though, I think it will be a good thing. Two things that seem feared that I don't think will happen if the NCAA leads this.

1. I don't think they'll remove teams/conferences from the NCAA Tournament. This is the NCAA's golden goose and they aren't going to risk damaging it. That means that if there is subdivision changes with division I, I don't think they'll go so far as changing the post-season. More likely, the different subdivisions will simply allow for different rules on somethings like scholarships, maybe academic requirements, etc. The teams will continue to play nonconference and in the NCAA Tournament however.

2. If this does include an additional breakdown between I-A and I-AA, I don't think the separation will be as large as between I-A and I-AA currently is. I don't see the games between them decreasing and they'll probably even continue with the same bowls (and playoff :( ) structure. Again you are probably talking different rules with scholarships, maybe a little different academic requirements, etc.

All in all, I think this would probably be good because it lets us acknowledge what is already reality. If the NCAA is leading this, I don't see anyway we go a lot further and ending games between the two subdivisions or separating the bowls/playoff.

Your post and reasoning are exactly on target. I know we are on this site because we love college football, but what many have not considered, and sometimes refuse to add to their vision, is the cloud of financial disaster which surrounds all aspects of our lives.

Your statement about some colleges not being with us in the future is going to become reality sooner than we think. Just look at the State budget of New Jersey and its impact upon venerable Rutgers. Georgia is facing serious higher education cutbacks. Maryland has its woes.

What everyone needs to take a sobering look at is the size of TV contracts. Why so much now? They are sowing us up until they can close the window on self-production of the college sports product. Once the regulations are in place, or the legislation passed, we will get peanuts and then the only revenue stream that could keep some schools operational will dry up. The survivors will be forced to operate almost exclusively on corporate dollars. Corporate money means corporate strings. Bye Bye intellectual freedom. Bye Bye intellectual property.

The state of Alabama retirement systems just published in their latest news letter a list of the ten worst corporate tax avoiders. They are in order: 1. Exxon Mobile, 2. Bank of America (who received a bailout of what is now estimated to be approximately 1 Trillion dollars.) 3. General Electric, 4. Chevron, 5. Boeing, 6. Valero Energy, 7. Goldman Sachs, 8. Citigroup, 9. Conoco Phillips, and 10. Carnival Cruise Lines.

The gory details are available as to why all of these made the list, suffice it to say for space purposes that #10 Carnival made over 11 Billion in NET profit and paid only 1.1% in Federal Tax.

My point is this. Look at the list of leading contributors to the the Romney, Obama, Bush, Gore, and McCain campaigns and who do you find? You guessed it. Throw in Microsoft (NBC), Disney (ABC/ESPN), Time Warner and Fox and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that we are no longer "a government of the people, for the people, and by the people". We are instead a government subsidized of the corporation, for the corporation, and by the corporation. Our information comes from the corporation, and very soon, now that private business is dying and incentives for individual wealth development are drying up, our schools will become indoctrination centers for the corporate way. Sports revenue may be our final revenue stream to preserve academic freedom. Who would ever have dreamed that?

Universities will go through merger and acquisition, and through bankruptcy and closure. There will be fewer and fewer students who can afford high dollar student loans with little prospect for gainful employment. Some will find ways to become selfemployed and others will see no benefit in further education. The middle class will continue to dissipate and the gap between the richest and poorest will rival that of Mexico.

It is not a free enterprise system that taxes its citizens to provide a failing bank with one trillion dollars. Free enterprise means you are free to succeed or fail. Only an alien hybrid type of a government comes up with "Too Big to Fail" and only a corporate state thinks the world can't live without it. This is a warning sign so great how can we ignore it?

During the mortgage crisis something quietly took place that of course is not widely reported. The largest amount of private land passed into the hands of corporate ownership ever and they got us, the taxpayer, to buy it for them.

Why do you think you can't touch your 401K and 403B until your are almost 60? The money in those funds props up the stock values of these companies. They then leverage those shares to acquire more influence, more breaks, and more power. They exist on our money. Their failure becomes an excuse to take more of our money. The votes to do so were bought by them with our money. Their greatest fear is that we will realize that one day and stop supporting them. Their response is to so totally permeate our lives that we can not cease to support them unless we destroy ourselves in the process. Hence, "To Big to Fail."

They already have too much influence in education. They shouldn't get any more! I still believe in "We the People". And, that dream begins with enlightened minds which are the product of academic freedom. Anti-trust laws were once in place to ensure that corporations never became an economic black hole that would consume all life coming in contact with it. It's time we revisit those laws.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2012 11:54 AM by JRsec.)
03-31-2012 11:51 AM
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omniorange Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
JR, as I said in another thread, I love your stuff.

Unfortunately, while I agree with your sentiments, the plain truth of the matter is that education and college athletics are separately and together its own version of corporate corruption.

And the pessimist in me doesn't see that changing.

Cheers,
Neil
03-31-2012 12:29 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
(03-31-2012 12:29 PM)omniorange Wrote:  JR, as I said in another thread, I love your stuff.

Unfortunately, while I agree with your sentiments, the plain truth of the matter is that education and college athletics are separately and together its own version of corporate corruption.

And the pessimist in me doesn't see that changing.

Cheers,
Neil

The fingers of manipulation taint everything they touch. A long time ago I learned that despair has its roots in acceptance. I refuse to believe things cannot be changed. I have to hold on to that idealism because the roots of hope are found in ideals. Reality is simply the ground between realized hope and terminal despair. Since my feet rest upon that ground I am compelled to choose a direction. I move towards realized hope. If it kills me, at least I'll die happier than if I move towards the unthinkable other.
03-31-2012 12:51 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
(03-31-2012 11:40 AM)omniorange Wrote:  While I agree that change is unlikely to March Madness, I do believe the power conferences want to see change in basketball altogether to make the regular season more meaningful. Not sure how that could be accomplished.

First thing you could do to make the basketball regular season more meaningful is to change the autobid rules so that every conference's autobid goes to the regular-season champion. Conferences could still play conference tournaments if they so choose, but no bid would be guaranteed to a conference tournament winner.

If you do that, the regular season is a lot more meaningful, and you no longer have to worry about "lucky" conference tournament winners taking NCAA bids away from more deserving at-large candidates.
03-31-2012 01:00 PM
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omniorange Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
(03-31-2012 01:00 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-31-2012 11:40 AM)omniorange Wrote:  While I agree that change is unlikely to March Madness, I do believe the power conferences want to see change in basketball altogether to make the regular season more meaningful. Not sure how that could be accomplished.

First thing you could do to make the basketball regular season more meaningful is to change the autobid rules so that every conference's autobid goes to the regular-season champion. Conferences could still play conference tournaments if they so choose, but no bid would be guaranteed to a conference tournament winner.

If you do that, the regular season is a lot more meaningful, and you no longer have to worry about "lucky" conference tournament winners taking NCAA bids away from more deserving at-large candidates.

Not sure how that resolves the issue of making the regular season more meaningful to the power conferences though, since every major conference gets multiple bids in as it is. The only way I see the regular season becoming more meaningful is to combine this with a reduction of the number teams allowed into the big Dance. But I don't see that happening.

Cheers,
Neil
03-31-2012 01:34 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
I love that idea....but TV would hate it.

People forget: A tournament, especially a huge, single elimination is not about crowning the best team in the country, it's about creating exciting, dramatic television that ultimately rewards the two hottest teams at the end of the tournament who were also lucky enough to avoid upsets and unfavorable match ups along the way.

Kentucky is the best team in the country hands down, but to get to the final, they were unlucky enough to draw the one team that hates them the most and will give the their toughest game so its entirely possible that had it happened any other way, the Cats could be cruising to the title.
03-31-2012 01:34 PM
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joe4psu Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
(03-31-2012 11:51 AM)JRsec Wrote:  My point is this. Look at the list of leading contributors to the the Romney, Obama, Bush, Gore, and McCain campaigns and who do you find? You guessed it. Throw in Microsoft (NBC), Disney (ABC/ESPN), Time Warner and Fox and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that we are no longer "a government of the people, for the people, and by the people". We are instead a government subsidized of the corporation, for the corporation, and by the corporation. Our information comes from the corporation, and very soon, now that private business is dying and incentives for individual wealth development are drying up, our schools will become indoctrination centers for the corporate way. Sports revenue may be our final revenue stream to preserve academic freedom. Who would ever have dreamed that?

I think this is the second time I've seen you write something like this. It just makes no sense to me. While I agree with a lot of what you have to say, universities are about as far from havens of capitalism as you can get. Crony capitalism may be the danger you point out but is it really infesting universities?
03-31-2012 01:39 PM
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omniorange Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
(03-31-2012 01:39 PM)joe4psu Wrote:  
(03-31-2012 11:51 AM)JRsec Wrote:  My point is this. Look at the list of leading contributors to the the Romney, Obama, Bush, Gore, and McCain campaigns and who do you find? You guessed it. Throw in Microsoft (NBC), Disney (ABC/ESPN), Time Warner and Fox and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand that we are no longer "a government of the people, for the people, and by the people". We are instead a government subsidized of the corporation, for the corporation, and by the corporation. Our information comes from the corporation, and very soon, now that private business is dying and incentives for individual wealth development are drying up, our schools will become indoctrination centers for the corporate way. Sports revenue may be our final revenue stream to preserve academic freedom. Who would ever have dreamed that?

I think this is the second time I've seen you write something like this. It just makes no sense to me. While I agree with a lot of what you have to say, universities are about as far from havens of capitalism as you can get. Crony capitalism may be the danger you point out but is it really infesting universities?

Actually, working in education administration, I believe it is already happening. Not in every classroom per se, but in the overall direction education and research is heading and is already here in terms of longditudinal data reporting back to the states (which are controlled by the corporations).

Cheers,
Neil
03-31-2012 01:52 PM
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joe4psu Offline
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RE: NCAA President has suggested changing the setup of NCAA governance
(03-31-2012 01:52 PM)omniorange Wrote:  Actually, working in education administration, I believe it is already happening. Not in every classroom per se, but in the overall direction education and research is heading and is already here in terms of longditudinal data reporting back to the states (which are controlled by the corporations).

Cheers,
Neil

Thanks.
03-31-2012 02:06 PM
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