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exCincy Kid Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
..sounds like they'll almost have to play bowl games against each other..not enough other conferences to hook up with if they go to 24 teams. What a mess.....schools that have little in common (other than a hope to get more TV revenue), no rivalries, no history, no nothing really. It'l break up (in small pieces) almost as quickly as it's put together.
02-13-2012 06:30 PM
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Okie Chippewa Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-13-2012 04:10 PM)IULurker Wrote:  After this new conference grows to 20 it won't be too long before the best 12 teams ditch the rest and form a new conference. At that point the remaining 8 are in a world of hurt as they will be in a terrible FBS conference spread across the US with no major TV markets.

This.

Once upon a time the "old" WAC doubled in size. Then most of the original members became disenchanted and bolted to create the Mountain West. Here we go again?

Similarly, no one should be surprised if the Catholic schools within the few years, say "No Mas", and leave the Big East en mass (sic).
02-13-2012 06:31 PM
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exCincy Kid Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
I took a look at some of the threads over on the C-USA board and read the official announcement.....in that they suggest they could go from 16 all the way up to 24 teams. And the teams they mention at adding mostly dilute the conference IMHO. I know they are all excited about adding FIU because is supposedly brings a Florida market. Did you see how much of a "market" they brought when they played Marshall in the Beef o Brady's Bowl. Yeah, maybe 6,000 fans in a bowl a few hours drive from campus. The bowl itself announced attendance of 20K, but no way they had much more than half that amount. I just don't see why they want to do this, and I also can't see the C-USA teams getting more per team in TV revenue from this mess. Now, if they just stick with 16 or maybe up to 18 teams, even though I still don't see it holding together, at least there'd be pretty good quality in that league with mostly current MWC/C-USA membership.

That one Marshall guy over there is literally dizzy with delight over the thought of a 24 school monstrosity. What a mess that would be.
02-13-2012 06:49 PM
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Flat Tire 2 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-13-2012 03:44 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  
(02-13-2012 03:43 PM)MUsince96 Wrote:  
(02-13-2012 03:31 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
Quote:Universities involved in the discussions were the United States Air Force Academy, University of Alabama at Birmingham, Colorado State University, East Carolina University, Fresno State, University of Hawaii, Marshall University, University of Nevada, Reno, University of New Mexico, University of Nevada, Las Vegas, Rice University, University of Southern Mississippi, University of Texas at El Paso, Tulane University, The University of Tulsa and University of Wyoming. With the exception of Hawai'i as a football-only member, the participation would involve all sports.

I'm not seeing a single MAC school in there. So if you're not here to cause trouble, you're obviously here mistakenly. See ya.

lol. Those are the teams already in C-USA or MWC. Maybe you missed the part where we're going to 18-24 schools. Those teams have to come from somewhere.

Please leave...


I wouldn't take this poster too seriously, I bet he is a wvu fan just trying to keep up the MAC hate against Marshall.
02-13-2012 07:08 PM
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exCincy Kid Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
C-USA posters spend half their posting time disparaging other non BCS programs, esp the MAC and Sunbelt. Now they are ready to add the likes of FIU, FAU, N Texas, etc, etc., and tell us that they are going to get a better bucks per school TV deal. Man, that's hard to "buy". What are they thinking over there?
02-13-2012 08:24 PM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-13-2012 06:30 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  ..sounds like they'll almost have to play bowl games against each other..not enough other conferences to hook up with if they go to 24 teams. What a mess.....schools that have little in common (other than a hope to get more TV revenue), no rivalries, no history, no nothing really. It'l break up (in small pieces) almost as quickly as it's put together.

Exactly there is nothing but mass holding this mess together.

Every confernece has one, maybe two schools that don't fit the general profile or culture of the conferneces bulk but in most cases there is another reason.

ACC - East Coach High Acheiving Academic Schools
BIG10 - Mid West AAU Members
SEC - Large Southern State Schools
PAC12 - Large State schools on the west coast
MAC - Medium to large midwest public schools in a small footprint
SBC - Medium to large south east public schools in a small footprint

Beyond sports these are institutions that might work with each other in research, common educational goals, standards. Like I said there is usually an outlier in every conference (Vandy in the SEC, UB in the MAC, Penn State (geography) in the B1G)... But even then those school are *close enough* that membership makes sense.

The Big East grew into a mess partially because the small Catholic Schools and the Large State schools had no common vision.

This mess will end the same way, politics will tear it apart because there is *nothing* other than a million dollars a year or so, holding these schools together.

Ill echo what an OU poster (might have been Ozoner) said..

I would rather See UB drop down to FCS and try to get a CAA / A10 membership than join this disaster in waiting.
(This post was last modified: 02-13-2012 08:59 PM by Bull_In_Exile.)
02-13-2012 08:53 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-13-2012 08:24 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  C-USA posters spend half their posting time disparaging other non BCS programs, esp the MAC and Sunbelt. Now they are ready to add the likes of FIU, FAU, N Texas, etc, etc., and tell us that they are going to get a better bucks per school TV deal. Man, that's hard to "buy". What are they thinking over there?

I thought you were going to ask, what are they smoking over there?

It's true, they do spend an inordinate amount of time looking down at the other non-AQ conferences. Then get upset when the AQ conferences do that to them.
02-13-2012 08:55 PM
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NIUfilmmaker Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
The new MWC/CUSA merger is a joke, and will not last. Have fun splitting a per-chance-slightly bigger pie a million ways... it would be a downgrade for any MAC school. Lets build from within while the rest of the country runs around like chickens with there heads cut off.
02-13-2012 09:48 PM
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BarnardHall211 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
I hope their champion's big bowl berth is the Little Caesar's Bowl.

03-lmfao
02-13-2012 10:17 PM
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BrianNowicki Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
Judging by the comments on this thread I'm guessing that there are going to be some disappointed fans.
02-13-2012 10:30 PM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-13-2012 10:30 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  Judging by the comments on this thread I'm guessing that there are going to be some disappointed fans.

Why? You believe some MAC schools really are bolting for this?
02-13-2012 10:50 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-13-2012 06:31 PM)Okie Chippewa Wrote:  
(02-13-2012 04:10 PM)IULurker Wrote:  After this new conference grows to 20 it won't be too long before the best 12 teams ditch the rest and form a new conference. At that point the remaining 8 are in a world of hurt as they will be in a terrible FBS conference spread across the US with no major TV markets.

This.

Once upon a time the "old" WAC doubled in size. Then most of the original members became disenchanted and bolted to create the Mountain West. Here we go again?

Following through on your concept:

Alliance Split: Fresno St, UNLV, New Mexico, UTEP, Tulsa, So Miss, Marshall, East Carolina

Do you seriously think they would do this? This is what you are essentially saying is the best 8 or so would split to form their own conference.

The WAC-MWC split was a totally different situation because they reduced to a leaner and meaner footprint in order to capture more TV dollars per school. The value of the alliance is more about having so many schools in it then the quality therein.

The two situations are not comparable. There is no group of 8 to 12 schools capable of splitting off to get a larger contract especially from the perspective of travel logistics.
02-13-2012 11:09 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-13-2012 04:46 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(02-13-2012 04:10 PM)IULurker Wrote:  I don't think the reason no MAC school will bolt has to do with it being an inferior conference right now. The reason is that the MAC schools are taking a long-term view. After this new conference grows to 20 it won't be too long before the best 12 teams ditch the rest and form a new conference.

Hello Big West!

FSU, SJSU, USU, Idaho, UNLV, UNR, NMSU, UNM, UTEP, CSU, AFA, Wyo...

Isn't it strange how easy that was?

Now travel in the west will always be long, teams will always be somewhat spread out. But, it's pretty clear that you can form a decent conference with sensible divisions right away.

And that leaves

So Miss, La Tech, Rice, Tulane, Tulsa and UAB...Which is a fair start to a new conference. (No. Texas, Ark St and/or Missouri St round that out nicely).

ECU and Hawaii still struggle, but everyone else is taken care of.

Here is what you are flat out missing; conferences are interested in moving up in TV deal/Payout and not backwards.

Moving back to a regional CUSA or MWC is not going to be as lucrative as what they are assembling in the Alliance and would necessitate adding a bunch of lower tier SBC and WAC schools to further dilute quality.

The issue with the old WAC back in the early 90's was that it had UTEP instead of UNLV who was winning National Championships in hoops at the time so when the opportunity came to add the Texas schools of SMU, TCU, Rice the door was open to also fit in UNLV to go to 14. Then once at 14 the WAC decided to go to 16 (SJSU, Tulsa).

The WAC then was straddled with SJSU and UTEP along with some loss of traditional front range rivalries. They had the MAC problem of deadwood like EMU and Akron and split to shed the deadwood. Utah, BYU, New Mexico, UNLV, SDSU, Colorado State (had a good FB team at the time) and Wyoming trimmed the dead wood.

Now its different. The entire alliance is basically deadwood that couldn't get into a BCS conference. There is a few exceptions like UNLV/New Mexico basketball and ECU/Southern Miss football but everything else is pretty much crap so what is going to drive a split?
02-13-2012 11:27 PM
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Louis Kitton Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-13-2012 10:50 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  
(02-13-2012 10:30 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  Judging by the comments on this thread I'm guessing that there are going to be some disappointed fans.

Why? You believe some MAC schools really are bolting for this?

The best thing that could possibly happen for the MAC is if they could somehow get Toledo to hit the road for the alliance.

That would eliminate a crappy basketball school from the conference and solve the double market issue in lightly populated NW Ohio. I'd rather have BG from NW Ohio as it has broader appeal and is a draw for the MAC in Cleveland.

At 11 schools, and wishing UMass away to the alliance pods that could allow the MAC to grow itself to 18 with a 2 division format.

North: NIU, Ball State, WMU, CMU, EMU, BG, Kent, Akron, Buffalo
South: Tx St, Ark St, La Tech, WKU, MTSU, OU, MU, South Alabama, FAU

I'm going to figure UNT/UTSA would get themselves into a pod otherwise I would have them included. FIU is a pod front runner so the MAC can take the second Florida school.

The MAC at 18 schools would have about 6 bowls and be well situated to pick up at-larges with all the southern schools included.

The future is bigger conferences. They provide more competition and have far more inventory to offer networks.
02-14-2012 12:12 AM
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Photodan Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-14-2012 12:12 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  The best thing that could possibly happen for the MAC is if they could somehow get Toledo to hit the road for the alliance.

That would eliminate a crappy basketball school from the conference and solve the double market issue in lightly populated NW Ohio. I'd rather have BG from NW Ohio as it has broader appeal and is a draw for the MAC in Cleveland.

Not to fall for obvious flamebait but you do realize that this "crappy basketball school" that has no seniors and is missing 2-3 bench players recently beat your Ohio men, right?

I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention Toledo's women hosting and winning the WNIT last year.

You're nuts if you think the MAC losing Toledo could ever be a good thing for the rest of you.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2012 12:40 AM by Photodan.)
02-14-2012 12:39 AM
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Campbell4President Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-14-2012 12:12 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  That would eliminate a crappy basketball school from the conference and solve the double market issue in lightly populated NW Ohio. I'd rather have BG from NW Ohio as it has broader appeal and is a draw for the MAC in Cleveland.

What are you talking about? This isn't the NFL where if the Browns go away, people will have to become Steelers, Bengals, or Lions fans. If Toledo goes away, people won't mysteriously just become BG fans? Toledo fans and BG fans overall are only fans because they are alumni. Those that don't attend college generally are either Ohio State or Michigan fans. Also, what the hell is "broader appeal?" You know you're talking about the MAC, right? None of us have broader appeal? Again, I would guess that 95% of our fan support is from those who have attended our respective universities.

Oh, and this is a little dated...you have to go back almost a week in time for this but.....

http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=320392649

And that's from a team that is less than two years removed from the being the biggest mess in college basketball and a team that is playing together in its first year...with only 8 scholarship players. Not an established team like the Bobcats.

And then there's this...

http://www.toledoblade.com/UT/2012/02/13...honor.html

To be honest, my biggest fear is that we're all (by we, I mean us MAC schools) going to be playing FCS football within a few years.
02-14-2012 01:40 AM
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NIUfilmmaker Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-14-2012 12:39 AM)Photodan Wrote:  
(02-14-2012 12:12 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  The best thing that could possibly happen for the MAC is if they could somehow get Toledo to hit the road for the alliance.

That would eliminate a crappy basketball school from the conference and solve the double market issue in lightly populated NW Ohio. I'd rather have BG from NW Ohio as it has broader appeal and is a draw for the MAC in Cleveland.

Not to fall for obvious flamebait but you do realize that this "crappy basketball school" that has no seniors and is missing 2-3 bench players recently beat your Ohio men, right?

I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention Toledo's women hosting and winning the WNIT last year.

You're nuts if you think the MAC losing Toledo could ever be a good thing for the rest of you.

I agree the "Lose Toledo" strategy made no sense. Not the first team I would cut in the MAC, or the 3rd or 4th...
02-14-2012 03:56 AM
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Bull_In_Exile Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-14-2012 03:56 AM)NIUfilmmaker Wrote:  
(02-14-2012 12:39 AM)Photodan Wrote:  
(02-14-2012 12:12 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  The best thing that could possibly happen for the MAC is if they could somehow get Toledo to hit the road for the alliance.

That would eliminate a crappy basketball school from the conference and solve the double market issue in lightly populated NW Ohio. I'd rather have BG from NW Ohio as it has broader appeal and is a draw for the MAC in Cleveland.

Not to fall for obvious flamebait but you do realize that this "crappy basketball school" that has no seniors and is missing 2-3 bench players recently beat your Ohio men, right?

I'd also be remiss if I didn't mention Toledo's women hosting and winning the WNIT last year.

You're nuts if you think the MAC losing Toledo could ever be a good thing for the rest of you.

I agree the "Lose Toledo" strategy made no sense. Not the first team I would cut in the MAC, or the 3rd or 4th...

I agree! You don't want to lose a solid football program who happens to geographically anchor your conference and who brings out more fans than most.
02-14-2012 07:23 AM
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DrTorch Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
(02-13-2012 11:09 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  The two situations are not comparable. There is no group of 8 to 12 schools capable of splitting off to get a larger contract especially from the perspective of travel logistics.

Uh yeah there is. And I showed it here http://csnbbs.com/showthread.php?tid=555...pid7552562
02-14-2012 08:37 AM
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bronconick Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Not starting trouble guys..
What I just learned: The guy who spends all his time suggesting expansion choices for the MAC doesn't even understand that football is the sport that matters in expansion matters, not basketball.

Hi-larious.
02-14-2012 08:39 AM
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