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Howl-n-Prowl Away
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Post: #61
RE: Football map
(02-08-2012 12:49 PM)TomThumb Wrote:  You can't really split up California by geography. Local USC and UCLA fans live in pretty much the exact same areas. Same with Stanford and Cal. It's not like you cross the Dumbarton Bridge and all of a sudden you're in Stanford territory or something.

Actually, you're in East Palo Alto 04-jawdrop

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02-08-2012 12:52 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Football map
(02-07-2012 11:31 AM)CD11 Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 05:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Miami also has a similar fanbase in the rich suburbs of Indianapolis (Carmel, Fishers) and probably other major cities in the region.

For real? That sucks, I'm moving there this summer. That'll be a real pain in the ass if true.

That's Miami of Ohio. And like I said, I'm overestimating the appeal of the MAC teams in my map. It's weird, I went into a sports apparel store once in Hudson (the richest suburb of Cleveland) and all they had were OSU and Miami shirts. Miami is over 4 hours away from Hudson. It's definitely OSU country, but they'll root for Miami there also.

If you're moving to Indy, you won't even notice Miami fans. It's just that in the super-rich suburbs, a lot of people will have Miami as a rooting interest because they or their kids went there. It's not even necessarily their primary rooting interest because they haven't been any good since 2003.
02-08-2012 12:59 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Football map
IMO, Miami (OH) lost about 1/3 to 1/2 of their fanbase when they switched from the Redskins to the Redhawks in 1997. I wonder if other teams have seen similar results from switching names?

I know that the Case Rough Riders and Western Reserve Red Cats (both in Cleveland) used to have real fan bases (Western Reserve even won the Sun Bowl in 1941 against Arizona State). They were also big rivals, with games being played in front of 30,000 fans in the 50's. But when the schools combined in the 70's, and became the Case Western Reserve Spartans (bleh), their fanbases disappeared.
02-08-2012 01:07 PM
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BaylorGuy314 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Football map
(02-08-2012 12:10 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 10:24 AM)BaylorGuy314 Wrote:  I like the idea, but there is something wrong with the way he did his sampling. I only say that because, for the most part, anywhere you click in Texas has, reportedly, more A&M fans than Texas fans and that's just not remotely true.

I'd say we have more true, die hard fans than UT does but obviously we haven't had anywhere near their current number of bandwagon/t-shirt fans since the mid 90's when we crashed and they went on their current run.

I can't argue with that. We both know how many t-shirt fans UT has gotten over the past decade with their success. And if this is 2 years old, then it's even more so as it would've been closer to their title run in 2005. A&M has a great following, but more than Texas? Not close when you consider the vast number of t-shirt folks.
02-08-2012 01:19 PM
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CD11 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Football map
(02-08-2012 12:59 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-07-2012 11:31 AM)CD11 Wrote:  
(02-06-2012 05:45 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Miami also has a similar fanbase in the rich suburbs of Indianapolis (Carmel, Fishers) and probably other major cities in the region.

For real? That sucks, I'm moving there this summer. That'll be a real pain in the ass if true.

That's Miami of Ohio. And like I said, I'm overestimating the appeal of the MAC teams in my map. It's weird, I went into a sports apparel store once in Hudson (the richest suburb of Cleveland) and all they had were OSU and Miami shirts. Miami is over 4 hours away from Hudson. It's definitely OSU country, but they'll root for Miami there also.

If you're moving to Indy, you won't even notice Miami fans. It's just that in the super-rich suburbs, a lot of people will have Miami as a rooting interest because they or their kids went there. It's not even necessarily their primary rooting interest because they haven't been any good since 2003.

Haha yeah I know you meant Miami OH. That's why I was so sad. I don't want to be surrounded by those cretins in Carmel. IU fans I can live with. Purdue I don't even think has a fanbase. Butler's cool. Notre Dame's tolerable for the most part in my experience. But Miami OH? Gross. Your story about Hudson is really interesting BTW. Strange stuff.
02-08-2012 01:34 PM
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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Football map
(02-08-2012 01:19 PM)BaylorGuy314 Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 12:10 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 10:24 AM)BaylorGuy314 Wrote:  I like the idea, but there is something wrong with the way he did his sampling. I only say that because, for the most part, anywhere you click in Texas has, reportedly, more A&M fans than Texas fans and that's just not remotely true.

I'd say we have more true, die hard fans than UT does but obviously we haven't had anywhere near their current number of bandwagon/t-shirt fans since the mid 90's when we crashed and they went on their current run.

I can't argue with that. We both know how many t-shirt fans UT has gotten over the past decade with their success. And if this is 2 years old, then it's even more so as it would've been closer to their title run in 2005. A&M has a great following, but more than Texas? Not close when you consider the vast number of t-shirt folks.

Absolutely, but at the same time, a t-shirt "fan" is hard to quantify. A fan means you are a "fan"atic. If your "fan"atic devotion to a team is , like many t-shirtss, limited to saying "I like so-and-so" and buying a $5 t-shirt at Wal-mart but can't name a single player and has never once set foot on the campus of "their school"...is that person truly a "fan" at all?

A single, true fanatic who buys season tickets, donates to the AD foundation and buys every possible product with their school's logo on it has, in just one season provided more material and quantifiable support to their school than an entire legion of t-shirt fans have provided over the course of several years.

That's why I agree more with the NYT blog on the subject that estimates both UT and A&M in the top 10 for fan bases at #5 and #6 with a little more than 2 million non-t-shirt fans each. T-shirt fans come and go, but that true, core fan base that is always there and always outspends/contributes the t-shirters by an order of magnitude is what makes a school truly valuable in the long term.
(This post was last modified: 02-08-2012 02:44 PM by 10thMountain.)
02-08-2012 02:32 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Football map
(02-08-2012 01:34 PM)CD11 Wrote:  Haha yeah I know you meant Miami OH. That's why I was so sad. I don't want to be surrounded by those cretins in Carmel. IU fans I can live with. Purdue I don't even think has a fanbase. Butler's cool. Notre Dame's tolerable for the most part in my experience. But Miami OH? Gross. Your story about Hudson is really interesting BTW. Strange stuff.

Don't underestimate Purdue fans. Purdue has had top-20 attendance in basketball over the past two years, and and averages 46,000 in football (which is significantly more than IU). Purdue is one of those schools that has a lot of die-hard fans, but fewer t-shirt fans.

Indiana is organized like a southern state. There's the ag/engineering school (Purdue) and there's the liberal arts/fine arts/med school (Indiana). It's even a right-to-work state now. Speaking in generalities, the common Indiana man who didn't go to college will be an IU fan, unless he's a farmer, in which case he'll be a Purdue fan. So there are more "t-shirt fans" of IU. But there are not as many die-hard IU fans who went to IU as there are at Purdue, partly because IU is more remote and partly because fine arts majors aren't sports fans.

This stratification by job category leads to an intense-state rivalry that is more than just about sports, it's about your profession and lifestyle choice.

If I had to guess, I'd think there are a slightly more Purdue fans than IU fans in Carmel. Not only is Carmel much closer to Lafayette than Bloomington, but almost everyone in Carmel will have a college degree, which takes away much of the "t-shirt fan" effect.

You'd be surprised how few ND fans there are in Indy. They're definitely in 4th place. There's a lot more in Chicago, where they're in 2nd (behind Illinois).

Butler has become the T-shirt fan favorite in Indianapolis, particularly among the younger folks who were coming of age when they started getting good (2000-2008) and high-schoolers. But some IU fans resent this terribly, and think that Butler should know their place. I've heard the word "uppity" used once or twice.

Source: I go to Purdue now and my brother is a Butler grad. The Butler-Purdue and IU-ND doubleheader in downtown Indy was amazing to witness; I highly recommend getting a ticket to the next one.
02-08-2012 04:21 PM
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CD11 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Football map
(02-08-2012 04:21 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 01:34 PM)CD11 Wrote:  Haha yeah I know you meant Miami OH. That's why I was so sad. I don't want to be surrounded by those cretins in Carmel. IU fans I can live with. Purdue I don't even think has a fanbase. Butler's cool. Notre Dame's tolerable for the most part in my experience. But Miami OH? Gross. Your story about Hudson is really interesting BTW. Strange stuff.

Don't underestimate Purdue fans. Purdue has had top-20 attendance in basketball over the past two years, and and averages 46,000 in football (which is significantly more than IU). Purdue is one of those schools that has a lot of die-hard fans, but fewer t-shirt fans.

Indiana is organized like a southern state. There's the ag/engineering school (Purdue) and there's the liberal arts/fine arts/med school (Indiana). It's even a right-to-work state now. Speaking in generalities, the common Indiana man who didn't go to college will be an IU fan, unless he's a farmer, in which case he'll be a Purdue fan. So there are more "t-shirt fans" of IU. But there are not as many die-hard IU fans who went to IU as there are at Purdue, partly because IU is more remote and partly because fine arts majors aren't sports fans.

This stratification by job category leads to an intense-state rivalry that is more than just about sports, it's about your profession and lifestyle choice.

If I had to guess, I'd think there are a slightly more Purdue fans than IU fans in Carmel. Not only is Carmel much closer to Lafayette than Bloomington, but almost everyone in Carmel will have a college degree, which takes away much of the "t-shirt fan" effect.

You'd be surprised how few ND fans there are in Indy. They're definitely in 4th place. There's a lot more in Chicago, where they're in 2nd (behind Illinois).

Butler has become the T-shirt fan favorite in Indianapolis, particularly among the younger folks who were coming of age when they started getting good (2000-2008) and high-schoolers. But some IU fans resent this terribly, and think that Butler should know their place. I've heard the word "uppity" used once or twice.

Source: I go to Purdue now and my brother is a Butler grad. The Butler-Purdue and IU-ND doubleheader in downtown Indy was amazing to witness; I highly recommend getting a ticket to the next one.

Apologies for my ignorance towards Purdue. Those are impressive stats, no question. Are you in Engineering there?

I knew a little bit about the Indiana-Purdue rivalry and I've actually gone to a couple of those games in Bloomington. I had no idea about the cultural undertones that you outlined, though. That's fascinating stuff.

Your analysis of IU/Butler was great too and reminds me a little bit of Cincy-X. IU's got the prestige and the history, but they started falling on hard times right as Butler went from "very very good mid-major" to "national powerhouse," not unlike Xavier's ascension to power in the 2000s while UC rebuilt. Just seems like similar perceptions.

I'm really excited to get the chance to see this all for myself soon. DC's nice, but I've always loved Indianapolis.
02-08-2012 04:56 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Football map
(02-08-2012 04:56 PM)CD11 Wrote:  Apologies for my ignorance towards Purdue. Those are impressive stats, no question. Are you in Engineering there?

I knew a little bit about the Indiana-Purdue rivalry and I've actually gone to a couple of those games in Bloomington. I had no idea about the cultural undertones that you outlined, though. That's fascinating stuff.

Your analysis of IU/Butler was great too and reminds me a little bit of Cincy-X. IU's got the prestige and the history, but they started falling on hard times right as Butler went from "very very good mid-major" to "national powerhouse," not unlike Xavier's ascension to power in the 2000s while UC rebuilt. Just seems like similar perceptions.

I'm really excited to get the chance to see this all for myself soon. DC's nice, but I've always loved Indianapolis.

I think that IU-Butler is a lot different than UC-XU.

UC-XU is a rivalry. Oh sure, both have other major rivals (i.e. Dayton, Louisville), but we are each other's primary rival. We've played every single year since World War Two (and twice a year in the 50's). It was also an annual football rivalry until the 70's, when Xavier dropped their program (when my brother went to UC he wrote an article for the UC student handbook that boasted about how UC is undefeated against Xavier in football since 1972).

IU and Butler don't have anywhere near that type of history. They only play in basketball every 2 or 3 years, and they've only played once in football since 1910, despite the fact that Butler has a decent D-1aa program.

I truly think IU-Butler is a generational difference (those young Butler whippersnappers!), whereas in UC-XU it's a deep-seated rivalry where people choose their side at an early age and stick to it. Despite their poor performance on the court before the 90's, Xavier has always been relatively popular (they averaged 8,000 fans a game in 1991). I think it's odd that Butler isn't more popular amongst the older generations, as they've actually been better on the court (winning two pre-tournament Helms national titles in 1924 and 1929) and have an amazing on-campus arena (something Xavier didn't have until 2000).
02-13-2012 09:15 AM
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Post: #70
RE: Football map
(02-02-2012 01:16 AM)Fear The Frog Wrote:  [Image: CFBMapIII.png]
cool map but byu has 20x more fans than utah within that state

at least 20x more
02-13-2012 12:41 PM
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