Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
YouCanUseaMint Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 437
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 20
I Root For: Texas State
Location:
Post: #41
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
Ah, where to start.

First things first, the MWC tv contract the way it currently stands > the WAC tv contract in terms of $$. If we're talking exposure, no way. How many times did y'all see Boise on tv this year? After Boise left, the ESPN deal was renegotiated with the WAC... what I don't know is if the MWC's deal will be renogiated with the departures of Utah, TCU, BYU, SDSU, and BSU.

Like I said on the Sunbelt board... if AFA leaves with (possibly) rumored Navy to the Big East, the three schools leaving the WAC should take another look at the gutted MWC. Will the new WAC be bad at football? Outside of Louisiana Tech, USU, and a rising SJSU, yes. But what about the MWC's bottom of the bucket schools in UNM, UNLV, and CSU? Plus, Hawaii has to pay travel subsidies in the MWC and last I checked, wasn't allowed to keep their PPV deal with the conference's television contract.

The WAC offers Hawaii their PPV deal and no travel subsidies. It offers all three schools divisional play. It offers greater national exposure with ESPN. It offers access to Texas recruiting with incoming members Texas State and UTSA. And finally, it offers potential.

Reno has already come out and said they won't reconsider, but that isn't surprising because their new league has their in-state rival.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2011 09:53 AM by YouCanUseaMint.)
12-22-2011 01:45 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Louis Kitton Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,000
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 27
I Root For: High Fashion
Location: Paris Online
Post: #42
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-21-2011 10:09 PM)chrisattsu Wrote:  I would like to thank the OP for inviting me into this thread. The problem is that some of these teams just don't want to be there. Nevada, Fresno and Hawaii are already packed. I continue to learn more about why these teams are leaving, but it's like being invited to Christmas dinner with a new girlfriends family.
You know that uncles bob and joe aren't speaking, and aunt Ruth thinks her stuff don't stink now that she's got a new man but you really don't know that much.

As for the Texas area schools. North Texas does not want to be in a conference with us because they have a long history of playing at fbs. The consider their peers to be cusa schools not recent upgrades from the Southland despite the fact that we are academic peers competing around the state for the same types of students.

Great to hear expansion opinion from a fellow Bobcat fan!

03-lmfao

The model in the MWC, CUSA and maybe even in the WAC is to think markets first with expansion.

The WAC added Seattle, Denver, UT-Arlington, UT-San Antonio and Texas State to the conference. All represent significant markets except Texas State which has a "state name" like Utah State, New Mexico State, Idaho.

The MAC conversely has a small market mentality; CMU, WMU, EMU, Kent, Ball State, Ohio, Miami, BG are all in small to very small markets. The MAC has some mid-to-large sized markets in Temple, Toledo, Akron, Buffalo but that isn't typical of most of the conference.

The SBC wasn't very well thought out necessarily. For one nobody wanted in it, La Tech (WAC) and UCF (MAC) opted out for more established conferences. They are conservative with expansion and take the approach that less is more when it comes to membership.


College sports is totally built on ego. I will play this school, but I won't play that school ect. BCS conferences are nothing but ego.

The way the NCAA is structured is to the benefit of a few powerful schools and is totally against the spirit of amateurism and smacks in the face of tax exempt status.
12-22-2011 02:20 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
YouCanUseaMint Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 437
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 20
I Root For: Texas State
Location:
Post: #43
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 02:20 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  The WAC added Seattle, Denver, UT-Arlington, UT-San Antonio and Texas State to the conference. All represent significant markets except Texas State which has a "state name" like Utah State, New Mexico State, Idaho.

Texas State falls in the Austin DMA just like North Texas falls in DFW. Granted neither of us have very good market penetration because of the more notable schools in the area, but that's beside the point.
12-22-2011 09:57 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Howl-n-Prowl Away
Three SDs above the mean

Posts: 5,636
Joined: Sep 2011
I Root For: Los NIU Huskies
Location: Huskie Territory
Post: #44
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 01:45 AM)YouCanUseaMint Wrote:  Ah, where to start.

First things first, the MWC tv contract the way it currently stands > the WAC tv contract in terms of $$. If we're talking exposure, no way. How many times did y'all see Boise on tv this year? After Boise left, the ESPN deal was renegotiated with the WAC... what I don't know is if the MWC's deal will be renogiated with the departures of Utah, TCU, BYU, SDSU, and BSU.

Like I said on the Sunbelt board... if AFA leaves with (possibly) rumored Navy to the Big East, the three schools leaving the WAC should take another look at the gutted MWC. Will the new WAC be bad at football? Outside of Louisiana Tech, USU, and a rising SJSU, yes. But what about the MWC's bottom of the bucket schools in UNM, UNLV, and CSU? Plus, Hawaii has to pay travel subsidies in the MWC and last I checked, wasn't allowed to keep their PPV deal with the conference's television contract.

The WAC offers Hawaii their PPV deal and no travel subsidies. It offers all three schools divisional play. It offers greater national exposure with ESPN. It offers access to Texas recruiting with incoming members Texas State and UTSA. And finally, it offers potential.

Reno has already come out and said they won't reconsider, but that isn't surprising because their new league has their in-state rival.

Thanks for weighing in.

For the TV deal, yes I meant exposure. And regarding the money, I would think there will be a renegotiation with all the "big Money" teams leaving the MWC.

Thanks for adding the info about Hawaii's ppv deal and travel subsidies expenses. I was unaware of those and they only add to my argument that these schools should at least reconsider.

Nevada, with UNLV as an in-state rival as you pointed out, may still make sense, plus they are a high altitude, cold, mountain town and probably make more sense in the MWC than UNLV.

But Fresno, with SDSU leaving, would not have a CA rival in the MWC but would still have SJSU in the WAC. Also, Fresno would not be re-establishing its conference rivalry with Boise State (presumably an incentive for the move initially) since they will be leaving for the BE.

Have you heard any rumblings about Hawaii and Fresno staying?

Are there rumblings at Texas State about alternatives to the WAC and what are they?

As a future WAC member, what do you see happening with football membership?
12-22-2011 10:32 AM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
YouCanUseaMint Offline
2nd String
*

Posts: 437
Joined: Mar 2010
Reputation: 20
I Root For: Texas State
Location:
Post: #45
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 10:32 AM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 01:45 AM)YouCanUseaMint Wrote:  Ah, where to start.

First things first, the MWC tv contract the way it currently stands > the WAC tv contract in terms of $$. If we're talking exposure, no way. How many times did y'all see Boise on tv this year? After Boise left, the ESPN deal was renegotiated with the WAC... what I don't know is if the MWC's deal will be renogiated with the departures of Utah, TCU, BYU, SDSU, and BSU.

Like I said on the Sunbelt board... if AFA leaves with (possibly) rumored Navy to the Big East, the three schools leaving the WAC should take another look at the gutted MWC. Will the new WAC be bad at football? Outside of Louisiana Tech, USU, and a rising SJSU, yes. But what about the MWC's bottom of the bucket schools in UNM, UNLV, and CSU? Plus, Hawaii has to pay travel subsidies in the MWC and last I checked, wasn't allowed to keep their PPV deal with the conference's television contract.

The WAC offers Hawaii their PPV deal and no travel subsidies. It offers all three schools divisional play. It offers greater national exposure with ESPN. It offers access to Texas recruiting with incoming members Texas State and UTSA. And finally, it offers potential.

Reno has already come out and said they won't reconsider, but that isn't surprising because their new league has their in-state rival.

Thanks for weighing in.

For the TV deal, yes I meant exposure. And regarding the money, I would think there will be a renegotiation with all the "big Money" teams leaving the MWC.

Thanks for adding the info about Hawaii's ppv deal and travel subsidies expenses. I was unaware of those and they only add to my argument that these schools should at least reconsider.

Nevada, with UNLV as an in-state rival as you pointed out, may still make sense, plus they are a high altitude, cold, mountain town and probably make more sense in the MWC than UNLV.

But Fresno, with SDSU leaving, would not have a CA rival in the MWC but would still have SJSU in the WAC. Also, Fresno would not be re-establishing its conference rivalry with Boise State (presumably an incentive for the move initially) since they will be leaving for the BE.

Have you heard any rumblings about Hawaii and Fresno staying?

Are there rumblings at Texas State about alternatives to the WAC and what are they?

As a future WAC member, what do you see happening with football membership?

Here's what's interesting regarding UNLV... This is from the twitter feed of Ryan Greene. Greene is the college sports writer for Vegas Seven magazine and also a Yahoo! Sports contributor.

Quote:Just got off the phone with #UNLV AD Jim Livengood. Interesting comments about where UNLV stands. Here's some highlights ...

If #UNLV is exploring options outside of #MWC: "Absolutely. I can't get into great detail for obvious reasons, but absolutely."

That doesn't mean that they are only wanting to get out of the #MWC. Just means they're exploring alternatives to #MWC/C-USA, too. #UNLV

Livengood said the goal right now is "making Rebel football relevant. I believe we're on track for that." #UNLV

But part of making #UNLV football 'relevant' does not include trying to push its way into a BCS conference, Livengood said.

Finally, Livengood said he will not be looking to split up #UNLV football from the rest of his programs. Wants to keep everything together.

Fresno and Hawaii are remaining quiet, which shows they could be back to the drawing board in reviewing their conference decision.

Texas State's preferences are as follows: WAC, MWC, CUSA, Sunbelt

We have had discussions with other leagues should anything happen to WAC football, but make no mistake about it... Texas State wants to see the WAC succeed and have it as their football home.

I think the WAC is finally starting to see some stability. I don't think Louisiana Tech gets chosen over the alliance's other options (F_U, Temple, UNT, etc) because they don't offer a market nor sustained success in any of their sports (outside of maybe womens basketball). Their budget is also around $15 million which is $5 million less than what Texas State is currently operating with at an FCS level.
12-22-2011 12:11 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Howl-n-Prowl Away
Three SDs above the mean

Posts: 5,636
Joined: Sep 2011
I Root For: Los NIU Huskies
Location: Huskie Territory
Post: #46
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
Interesting about UNLV.

Also the MWC is not a strong BB conference. Arguably, the WAC even in its depleted state is a better BB league.

If UNLV goes back to the WAC, it's safe to assume that it would be contingent on the other 3 staying.

EDIT: My math forgot the 3 teams. Doh!

So, 11.

Who's the 12th?
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2011 12:40 PM by Howl-n-Prowl.)
12-22-2011 12:35 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Howl-n-Prowl Away
Three SDs above the mean

Posts: 5,636
Joined: Sep 2011
I Root For: Los NIU Huskies
Location: Huskie Territory
Post: #47
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
What was old is new again.

The MWC experiment may be done.

Welcome back WAC! (Hopefully).
12-22-2011 12:37 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Howl-n-Prowl Away
Three SDs above the mean

Posts: 5,636
Joined: Sep 2011
I Root For: Los NIU Huskies
Location: Huskie Territory
Post: #48
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
The WAC sits at 11 and waits for the AQ to disappear, then welcomes back Boise State to join its other sports.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2011 12:42 PM by Howl-n-Prowl.)
12-22-2011 12:42 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Louis Kitton Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,000
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 27
I Root For: High Fashion
Location: Paris Online
Post: #49
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 12:35 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  Interesting about UNLV.

Also the MWC is not a strong BB conference. Arguably, the WAC even in its depleted state is a better BB league.

If UNLV goes back to the WAC, it's safe to assume that it would be contingent on the other 3 staying.

EDIT: My math forgot the 3 teams. Doh!

So, 11.

Who's the 12th?

The MWC with UNLV and New Mexico is certainly a better basketball league.

UNLV is not going back to the WAC. I have thought if anything UNLV would be interested in going to Big East football only and Big West for basketball like SDSU.

UNLV in a BCS conference could recruit a higher caliber of athlete in football and field competitive teams, represent the state of Nevada in the BCS. It also brings the Las Vegas Bowl into the Big East fold.
12-22-2011 01:47 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,866
Joined: Sep 2010
Reputation: 65
I Root For: Baritones
Location: The Euphonistan Tree
Post: #50
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 09:57 AM)YouCanUseaMint Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 02:20 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  The WAC added Seattle, Denver, UT-Arlington, UT-San Antonio and Texas State to the conference. All represent significant markets except Texas State which has a "state name" like Utah State, New Mexico State, Idaho.

Texas State falls in the Austin DMA just like North Texas falls in DFW. Granted neither of us have very good market penetration because of the more notable schools in the area, but that's beside the point.

Of course that also means Kent is in the Cleveland DMA and so is not a small market team.
12-22-2011 02:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Louis Kitton Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,000
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 27
I Root For: High Fashion
Location: Paris Online
Post: #51
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 02:13 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 09:57 AM)YouCanUseaMint Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 02:20 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  The WAC added Seattle, Denver, UT-Arlington, UT-San Antonio and Texas State to the conference. All represent significant markets except Texas State which has a "state name" like Utah State, New Mexico State, Idaho.

Texas State falls in the Austin DMA just like North Texas falls in DFW. Granted neither of us have very good market penetration because of the more notable schools in the area, but that's beside the point.

Of course that also means Kent is in the Cleveland DMA and so is not a small market team.

And Ohio is in the rapidly growing Columbus DMA....
12-22-2011 02:15 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Howl-n-Prowl Away
Three SDs above the mean

Posts: 5,636
Joined: Sep 2011
I Root For: Los NIU Huskies
Location: Huskie Territory
Post: #52
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
Texas State is legitimately in the Austin/San Marcos/Round Rock DMA.
(This post was last modified: 12-22-2011 02:17 PM by Howl-n-Prowl.)
12-22-2011 02:16 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,866
Joined: Sep 2010
Reputation: 65
I Root For: Baritones
Location: The Euphonistan Tree
Post: #53
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 02:15 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 02:13 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 09:57 AM)YouCanUseaMint Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 02:20 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  The WAC added Seattle, Denver, UT-Arlington, UT-San Antonio and Texas State to the conference. All represent significant markets except Texas State which has a "state name" like Utah State, New Mexico State, Idaho.

Texas State falls in the Austin DMA just like North Texas falls in DFW. Granted neither of us have very good market penetration because of the more notable schools in the area, but that's beside the point.

Of course that also means Kent is in the Cleveland DMA and so is not a small market team.

And Ohio is in the rapidly growing Columbus DMA....

Not my fault Akron does not have their own DMA and if they did Kent would have to be in it as it is about 10 miles from city center. Heck there are city schools that are not that close to their city center.
12-22-2011 02:18 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Louis Kitton Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,000
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 27
I Root For: High Fashion
Location: Paris Online
Post: #54
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 02:18 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 02:15 PM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 02:13 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 09:57 AM)YouCanUseaMint Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 02:20 AM)Louis Kitton Wrote:  The WAC added Seattle, Denver, UT-Arlington, UT-San Antonio and Texas State to the conference. All represent significant markets except Texas State which has a "state name" like Utah State, New Mexico State, Idaho.

Texas State falls in the Austin DMA just like North Texas falls in DFW. Granted neither of us have very good market penetration because of the more notable schools in the area, but that's beside the point.

Of course that also means Kent is in the Cleveland DMA and so is not a small market team.

And Ohio is in the rapidly growing Columbus DMA....

Not my fault Akron does not have their own DMA and if they did Kent would have to be in it as it is about 10 miles from city center. Heck there are city schools that are not that close to their city center.

Kent State is the flagship public of N.E. Ohio with branch campuses throughout the region. Claiming the Cleveland DMA is fairly legitimate with the school's mission in the region.

It's harder by contrast for Miami to make the case of holding down the Dayton DMA (Wright State) or Cincinnati DMA (UC) as they don't have the same level of system wide enrollment.
12-22-2011 02:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
exCincy Kid Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,918
Joined: Jun 2002
Reputation: 35
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #55
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
Who cares......
12-22-2011 05:13 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Louis Kitton Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,000
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 27
I Root For: High Fashion
Location: Paris Online
Post: #56
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 05:13 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  Who cares......

Overall system wide enrollment is an important factor in the marketing value of athletic properties at the said school in question.
12-22-2011 06:08 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
GoApps70 Offline
Moderator
*

Posts: 20,650
Joined: Jun 2009
Reputation: 290
I Root For: Appalachian St.
Location: Charlotte, N. C.
Post: #57
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 05:13 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  Who cares......

Cannot believe that you don't care.
It was so intriguing, I couldn't put it down.
12-22-2011 08:32 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Louis Kitton Offline
Heisman
*

Posts: 5,000
Joined: Nov 2010
Reputation: 27
I Root For: High Fashion
Location: Paris Online
Post: #58
RE: Expansion Talk [DO NOT CLICK if this ain't your thing]
(12-22-2011 08:32 PM)GoApps70 Wrote:  
(12-22-2011 05:13 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  Who cares......

Cannot believe that you don't care.
It was so intriguing, I couldn't put it down.

He's a Miami fan who can't get over the fact that his Redhawks have lost 6 straight in football to arch rivals Ohio and Cincinnati.

03-nutkick
12-22-2011 10:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2018 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2018 MyBB Group.