(08-21-2009 03:38 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-20-2009 06:15 PM)Rick Gerlach Wrote:  

(08-20-2009 05:09 PM)Ranger Wrote:  

(08-20-2009 05:06 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-20-2009 02:36 PM)Ranger Wrote:  

(08-20-2009 09:28 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(08-19-2009 04:41 PM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  You want to talk about people that are scared? I have a cousin with a pre-existing condition who can’t get health insurance, and she’s not even 30 yet. She’s considered leaving the country to one that won’t treat her like complete @#$%. Another family we know is facing bankruptcy because they have a sick child who needs special care. They are, sorry - were, a middle class family with health insurance but the company went under and they have to pay COBRA, which is more than they can handle. My wife and her friends have been doing bake sales and charity auctions for them to keep them from going under. Why do we need to treat people like that in the wealthiest nation on earth?

Well, JAAO, I also have a pre-existing condition (more than one, actually) and am uninsurable. I turned to the Texas High Risk Healthpool and subscribed to a high deductible policy. The benefit to that is that the insurance has negotiated lower rates for procedures. I am leaving in about 15 minutes for yet another test(i might have yet another pre-existing condition) and I have been told the negotiated cost is $397. I am guessing the basic charge before negotiation would be $1200-1500. So even though I paid insurance costs plus over $7000 out of pocket last year, it was worth it for me. Tell your cousin to look into it as an alternative. Unfortunately, when I reach medicare age, the THRP will not cover me, so I will have no choice but to take the government option, just at a time when Obama is talking about cutbacks to help fund the coverage for his plan. And if I try to find out how that would affect me, I am just mean-spirited, unamerican, gun-toting, undereducated...

Owl 69's statements about fiat are spot on. Decisions will have to be made. How and who are the questions. A good example is the current system for organ transplants. There is a limited supply of livers. So when one comes available, a decision must be made - does it go to the 64 year-old diabetic or the 25 year-old single mom? Or if you like,, does it go to someone like me or to someone like your cousin? You don't want people with money getting to the head of the line, so i guess if I had seniority on the waiting list it would be OK with you if i went ahead of your cousin. So should it just be seniority that decides who gets scarce resources? Seniority = waiting lines.

Obamacare is not the Nirvana of healthcare, if anything it is the anything-but-what-we-have-now version, and as the election shows that is a bad basis to make choices. The administration wanted these bills SIGNED and in effect by now. No debate, no discussion, no tranparency. They wanted it rushed through, they failed, and now when people want to know what what they say, they either don't know, won't tell, or tell us to shut up. I want to know. Nothing wrong with that. It's not unAmerican to want to know.

Do you really believe that the priority for rationing will not be affected by political donations or support for the party then in power??

No, I don't believe that.

Hmmm. I think you will be surprised.

I think because you both had a negative (not/no) in your statements, what Optimistic was saying was that he did believe that rationing WOULD be (or at least COULD be) impacted by the whether or not you had the right connections. (and that he did not believe it would NOT be impacted, etc)

He's right. Let's take an example of a health plan that purported to treat all people the same, regardless of their station in life - the Soviet Union's healthcare. Of course the party members got better everything than the average Ivan, and the higher they were, the better they got. Supposeldly egalitarian plans are never truly egalitarian. That is why the President and Congress don't want to be on the same plan as they propose for the country - a question from the rude that they keep dodging.

Actually, some congresspersons have agreed to accept Obamacare. That is one reason why I grudgingly respect Ohio Senator Sherrod Brown, although do I not agree with him on policy. I understand when he was elected to Congress, he refused to accept the gold plated health care that Congress gets. Far too many congresspersons want us to eat what they cook, but they do not want to have to eat it themselves.