(04-08-2009 08:41 AM)JustAnotherAustinOwl Wrote:  

(04-08-2009 08:07 AM)erice Wrote:  

(04-08-2009 05:36 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  In other words, you don't like posts that say negative things about the messiah.

Incorrect. It's mocking responses like this that I don't like. Your reference to Obama as the "messiah" isn't an attack on him, it's directed at me personally. It may surprise you to learn that I'm not so easily befuddled by slick talk and big words that I think Obama is infallible (Or what else did you mean by that?). Comments like that don't invite civil debate (nor do sarcastic thread titles like "Does anyone genuinely believe..." which may have more to do with the lack of response from Obama supporters than anything), they're basically just cheap shots.
So I'd rather stick to the main forum where we can all agree that Wayne Graham is, in fact, the messiah (except when he's not calling enough steals).
(I know, I know, so what the hell am I still doing here??)

I just want to agree with what erice has been saying. I haven't quit posting on political topics here because "I can't come up with substantive arguments" or "can't stand the heat", I just decided it wasn't enjoyable or productive. The initial appeal was that we all have the good sense to be Rice Owls fans, maybe that would lead to a more civil and constructive debate than you typically see online. I don't think that's turned out to be the case. (Though it certainly could have been a lot worse too.) I'm sure there's blame on both sides, but in the end that's irrelevant. Do I think I *could* respond to all the posts and continue the argument? Sure. But I probably wouldn't change any minds and I'd have to take time off work to do it. So just not worth it to me.

I'm sorry, but this seems like all to convenient an excuse to me. Before I'm going to give you credit for being able to make substantive arguments, you're going to have to make some substantive arguments.

I have asked Obama supporters repeatedly to engage in substantive conversations--here, in the spin room, and in the Memphis political forum. I would like to like Obama, and I think he brings much good to the table, but I simply believe there is way too much in his platform that will be absolutely disastrous. I've tried to engage in discussion on that basis, but when I approach it that way, the responses turn all to quickly to personal attacks.

If my comments came off as too shrill, I apologize. It probably reflects in large measure my frustration at several months of trying to engage but being unsuccessful (most of those conversations being ones in which, to be fair, you did not personally participate; political discussion tends to be much more objective and fact-based than when you let certain others join in the fray).

The original question raised by this thread was whether anyone thought this stuff was going to work. I don't. I'd like to engage at a fairly high intellectual level with someone who thinks it will. If you do not wish to engage in such conversation, either here or privately, then you are probably the party with whom I wish to have a discussion.

I do want to clarify one thing. To the extent my comments could be taken as a personal attack, that was intended to be directed at the current occupants of the presidency, the vice-presidency, the speaker and majority leaders of the congress (and their immediate predecessors, for what that's worth). If my comments were taken personally by anyone else, that was not my intent, and the fault is probably mine for not being more clear in my posts. That, plus the fact that the nature of this medium is such that any conversation on here is subject to being given different interpretation from that intended by the author. Sorry if I offended anyone. My quarrel lies with the idiots in Washington (and their immediate predecessors), not fellow Owls.

I am still looking for an answer to my question. Does anybody think this is going to do more good than harm? If so what, where, when, how, and why? Do you expect that the impacts of the "stimulus plan" or "energy plan" will be different from my expectations? Those are suitable topics for discussion. And I promise you that I, and others further to the right than I am, are quite ready to debate and discuss them with more charity afforded to the incumbent president than those on the left extended to his predecessor (whom I also disliked) in prior discussions.