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OsageJ Offline
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Post: #441
RE: Georgia State
FIU shared a conference title....has a lot of aluminum showing anytime the play at home yet because they are in Florida and big city they are thought of higher than a UL or stAte. That is bull. If the city actually knew where the stadium was it would be different...if the fan base would follow to a local bowl game ...maybe. This is kind of like the Monkees...a made up band for TV. They became a success but I am not sure enough people in Miami will ever give a rip about FIU to make them a success.
03-24-2012 04:07 PM
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FIUFanatic Offline
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Post: #442
RE: Georgia State
Not anytime OsageJ, but it is a problem of a program only 10 years old to grow a fanbase of a university that hasn't even been open for 40 years. It takes time to build a fanbase, and I would counter to you that we've seen definite growth in our following and facilities. It is what it is, and we don't know what will be, but it sounds to me you personally don't like that "they (FIU) are thought of higher than a UL or stAte", is your conclusion which reeks of sour grapes to me.
03-24-2012 04:26 PM
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theATLDawg Offline
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Post: #443
RE: Georgia State
well as someone that has lived in the Miami metroplex and Atlanta, it's no question I would prefer those to Ruston also, but that doesn't help your point that Ruston sits in a town of 20k and gets over 22k for most games and thier average is going up. FIU sits in the middle of a huge market and barely sniffs at 14k yet they get rewarded based on sitting in a city that could care less about athletics. I used to go to Miami games and that stadium would be empty.
03-24-2012 04:46 PM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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Post: #444
RE: Georgia State
(03-24-2012 04:07 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  ...has a lot of aluminum showing anytime the play at home yet because they are in Florida and big city they are thought of higher than a UL or stAte. That is bull.

Saying a team isn't worthy because of the material that makes their stadium is the same as saying a team will be good because they are in a big city. Both have no bearing on the actual performance of the teams.

(03-24-2012 04:07 PM)OsageJ Wrote:  I am not sure enough people in Miami will ever give a rip about FIU to make them a success.

This sounds more like a wish than something grounded in fact.

Lets llook at some facts from an advertiser's point of view, ASU stadium original capacity was 16k in '74, then 18k+ in '80 and now at 30k. After a century of football, you largest crowd was just over 30k. Let's compare with the newest "big city" program that has nothing else going for it besides DMA. UTSA largest crowd to date is 56k with 1 year of football.

And you wonder why ESPN etc likes big city teams?
03-24-2012 04:49 PM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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Post: #445
RE: Georgia State
(03-24-2012 04:46 PM)theATLDawg Wrote:  well as someone that has lived in the Miami metroplex and Atlanta, it's no question I would prefer those to Ruston also, but that doesn't help your point that Ruston sits in a town of 20k and gets over 22k for most games and thier average is going up. FIU sits in the middle of a huge market and barely sniffs at 14k yet they get rewarded based on sitting in a city that could care less about athletics. I used to go to Miami games and that stadium would be empty.

You should use google or wiki if you don't want to go to FIU athletics' site and check those grossly inaccurate numbers before posting. You make a good point with Ruston's 20k population, it shows you have hit your ceiling in terms of attendance with playing ball as long as you guys have and as "nationally known" as you think you are.
03-24-2012 04:56 PM
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FIUFanatic Offline
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Post: #446
RE: Georgia State
Curious, never heard any South Floridian refer to the area as "Miami Metroplex" before......But what you said about South Florida attendance is mostly true, but get your facts right at least, as the average for FIU past season was 18,411 not 14k. However, your ignorance was mostly about facilities and implying FIU was located in inner city....but most of all that it was a "diploma factory", which can't be further from the truth. If you want to bring up academics, let's bring them with facts, not with innuendos and wrong information.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2012 05:05 PM by FIUFanatic.)
03-24-2012 04:59 PM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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Post: #447
RE: Georgia State
You guys built your fan base over several decades, up to a century in some cases. But you all assume that after 10 years of football FIU is a lost cause even though our attendance improves each year and our bowl attendance numbers go up each year.
03-24-2012 05:07 PM
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FIUFanatic Offline
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Post: #448
RE: Georgia State
(03-24-2012 05:07 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  You guys built your fan base over several decades, up to a century in some cases. But you all assume that after 10 years of football FIU is a lost cause even though our attendance improves each year and our bowl attendance numbers go up each year.

Exactly. And with the hate and derision....Geez...La Tech's first football game in 1901 (that's 111 seasons). FIU opened its doors as a university in 1972, and its first football game in 2002 (10 seasons old). La Tech opened its doors in 1894 (wow...118 years ago), yet schools like FIU, FAU are much younger and successful, if you compare.
03-24-2012 05:25 PM
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BLEEDITRED Offline
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Post: #449
RE: Georgia State
(03-24-2012 05:07 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  You guys built your fan base over several decades, up to a century in some cases. But you all assume that after 10 years of football FIU is a lost cause even though our attendance improves each year and our bowl attendance numbers go up each year.

I understand why you guys take it so personally, and there's no malice in my post, but to a point, they are right. I have a hard time understanding any argument for a large market that doesn't actually deliver it (this is me attempting to correlate the thread back to the actual subject).

I think the point is that if you can't draw good crowds in the huge market, then what tv or marketing appeal does that bring? And having such a poor showing at a bowl game right around the corner from you is bad. Very bad. Honestly asking, do you think any other school would've had as poor a showing as that with their bowl game so close?

Marketers don't get paid off of an areas population numbers, they get paid on the estimated views an ad will get and the number of tvs that will/do tune in. I'll give you, GaSt, hell throw South in there, that if any were to move up, the increase in name recognition of opponents would provide a slight boost to those numbers. But your post about UTSA, to me, signifies the problem you and others have. Only having a program for a decade isn't an excuse when a startup, in a large city but smaller than your own, did a fantastic job of drawing crowds. And they played some not so recognizable names. That, to me, is exactly what makes them so attractive; not simply their market, but that they will actually deliver it too.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2012 05:40 PM by BLEEDITRED.)
03-24-2012 05:38 PM
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FIUFanatic Offline
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Post: #450
RE: Georgia State
I don't know what you call a poor showing (10,000 fans), and how bad, very bad it is, but the fact remains schools like FAU and FIU were in the mix and are presumably wanted by other conferences, notwithstanding your opinion. It is what it is, whether you or me like it or not.
03-24-2012 05:44 PM
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ChooChoo Offline
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Post: #451
RE: Georgia State
(03-24-2012 05:25 PM)FIUFanatic Wrote:  
(03-24-2012 05:07 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  You guys built your fan base over several decades, up to a century in some cases. But you all assume that after 10 years of football FIU is a lost cause even though our attendance improves each year and our bowl attendance numbers go up each year.

Exactly. And with the hate and derision....Geez...La Tech's first football game in 1901 (that's 111 seasons). FIU opened its doors as a university in 1972, and its first football game in 2002 (10 seasons old). La Tech opened its doors in 1894 (wow...118 years ago), yet schools like FIU, FAU are much younger and successful, if you compare.

Exactly. GSU gets blasted for averaging 15k after 2 years. How can 80 year old programs (and older) cast stones about numbers when in all that time you average just 10k more in GOOD years?
I get the hate, I get the "it's not fair" but don't act like most of you haven't had decades to get it done and now GSU or FIU is going to take away your spot or resources. Most of our collective schools have been in either the SBC, TAAC, or A-Sun together during the past 30 years for olympic sports. We know what we are. We are all trying to better ourselves.
All due respect but App St is really the only outsider out of all us candidates in the bunch. The rest of us have history, be it good or bad. I will say this about App St, they bring a solid football program even if there is little to their market. So be it. I still want them in the SBC because their strength is important.
Its all pretty moot anyway. We're going to either learn to get along or get even more bitter because one way or another it looks like FIU and UNT are probably gone and 6 or 7 new schools are going to be joining. You may dislike GSU now but I'm sure when Benson sits down to negotiate the new TV contract you'll be fine with Atlanta being in the mix with San Antonio and Charlotte, and yes even Ruston.
03-24-2012 05:54 PM
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BLEEDITRED Offline
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Post: #452
RE: Georgia State
(03-24-2012 05:44 PM)FIUFanatic Wrote:  I don't know what you call a poor showing (10,000 fans), and how bad, very bad it is, but the fact remains schools like FAU and FIU were in the mix and are presumably wanted by other conferences, notwithstanding your opinion. It is what it is, whether you or me like it or not.

You may very well be in the mix, but at the same time, I'd figure that's what's holding you back.

I have no desire to get into a numbers attendance game with you. I just know that the tv shots of the game did not look good, and that I'm certainly not the first person to bring it up.

I don't like or not like it. Just looking at it objectively.
03-24-2012 05:56 PM
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FIU4Ever Offline
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Post: #453
RE: Georgia State
(03-24-2012 05:38 PM)BLEEDITRED Wrote:  
(03-24-2012 05:07 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  You guys built your fan base over several decades, up to a century in some cases. But you all assume that after 10 years of football FIU is a lost cause even though our attendance improves each year and our bowl attendance numbers go up each year.

I understand why you guys take it so personally, and there's no malice in my post, but to a point, they are right. I have a hard time understanding any argument for a large market that doesn't actually deliver it (this is me attempting to correlate the thread back to the actual subject).

I think the point is that if you can't draw good crowds in the huge market, then what tv or marketing appeal does that bring? And having such a poor showing at a bowl game right around the corner from you is bad. Very bad. Honestly asking, do you think any other school would've had as poor a showing as that with their bowl game so close?

Marketers don't get paid off of an areas population numbers, they get paid on the estimated views an ad will get and the number of tvs that will/do tune in. I'll give you, GaSt, hell throw South in there, that if any were to move up, the increase in name recognition of opponents would provide a slight boost to those numbers. But your post about UTSA, to me, signifies the problem you and others have. Only having a program for a decade isn't an excuse when a startup, in a large city but smaller than your own, did a fantastic job of drawing crowds. And they played some not so recognizable names. That, to me, is exactly what makes them so attractive; not simply their market, but that they will actually deliver it too.

Which FIU poster said FIU delivers Miami? We are far away from attendance numbers that we as fans would be truly pleased with, but we know we are heading in the right direction in that respect. I used UTSA to demonstrate why marketing would think large city = more eyes especially if a team is doing well. I did not say I agreed with this methodology.

But you got to admit though that a population of 20k doesn't leave much room to grow a local fan base. So the next question would be, can this program that sits in a town of 20K develop a state wide or national following? If you are still bitching about big city newbies passing you by after you have been playing for a century, that tells me you didn't develop a state or national appeal (like La Tech for example).
03-24-2012 06:00 PM
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BLEEDITRED Offline
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Post: #454
RE: Georgia State
(03-24-2012 06:00 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  
(03-24-2012 05:38 PM)BLEEDITRED Wrote:  
(03-24-2012 05:07 PM)FIU4Ever Wrote:  You guys built your fan base over several decades, up to a century in some cases. But you all assume that after 10 years of football FIU is a lost cause even though our attendance improves each year and our bowl attendance numbers go up each year.

I understand why you guys take it so personally, and there's no malice in my post, but to a point, they are right. I have a hard time understanding any argument for a large market that doesn't actually deliver it (this is me attempting to correlate the thread back to the actual subject).

I think the point is that if you can't draw good crowds in the huge market, then what tv or marketing appeal does that bring? And having such a poor showing at a bowl game right around the corner from you is bad. Very bad. Honestly asking, do you think any other school would've had as poor a showing as that with their bowl game so close?

Marketers don't get paid off of an areas population numbers, they get paid on the estimated views an ad will get and the number of tvs that will/do tune in. I'll give you, GaSt, hell throw South in there, that if any were to move up, the increase in name recognition of opponents would provide a slight boost to those numbers. But your post about UTSA, to me, signifies the problem you and others have. Only having a program for a decade isn't an excuse when a startup, in a large city but smaller than your own, did a fantastic job of drawing crowds. And they played some not so recognizable names. That, to me, is exactly what makes them so attractive; not simply their market, but that they will actually deliver it too.

Which FIU poster said FIU delivers Miami? We are far away from attendance numbers that we as fans would be truly pleased with, but we know we are heading in the right direction in that respect. I used UTSA to demonstrate why marketing would think large city = more eyes especially if a team is doing well. I did not say I agreed with this methodology.

But you got to admit though that a population of 20k doesn't leave much room to grow a local fan base. So the next question would be, can this program that sits in a town of 20K develop a state wide or national following? If you are still bitching about big city newbies passing you by after you have been playing for a century, that tells me you didn't develop a state or national appeal (like La Tech for example).

I have no idea if any particular poster has ever said they deliver the area, but again, that's my point. That FIU and FAU apparently don't, which also correlates to attendance, and therefore makes for a less attractive candidate for expansion (again, I'll refer this back to GaSt as well).

Yeah, I could care less about LaTech as far as this discussion goes. But I will agree that they are capped to an extent because of their area, but that has nothing to do with FIU, FAU, GaSt, etc.

And my point was, bringing up UTSA does not help your point. The reason they are a viable candidate, IMO, is because of their strong attendance numbers (on top of the teams those numbers were gained against), as well as a certain amount of "control" of their market. I went to the UTSA game against South last year. I also went to GaSt. And NC State. UTSA's downtown (and stadium) area had great appeal directly associated with UTSA. Night and day difference from GaSt, where little to none was present, other than a banner hanging off an overpass. UTSA closely rivaled what I saw around the Raleigh area, as far as apparent support for the local team.

I'll say this as well; there is no one-size-fits-all approach. It's a combination of factors that play into this. But that's exactly why simply being in a large market alone isn't the answer.
(This post was last modified: 03-24-2012 06:14 PM by BLEEDITRED.)
03-24-2012 06:12 PM
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blunderbuss Offline
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Post: #455
RE: Georgia State
(02-21-2012 08:52 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote:  
(02-21-2012 08:18 PM)asumike83 Wrote:  Sorry for my ignorance but how would App stack up in terms of attendance within the Sun Belt? Our regular season average was 28,031. We had one playoff game that was lightly attended (15,291) which brought the overall average to 26,211 but it is always hard to get folks up the mountain on short notice during the holidays with an uncertain number of games remaining, which would not be a concern at the FBS level. Our strong attendance really is our #1 selling point, as I'd imagine we would be at least in the top half.

Here's the Sun Belt Conference attendance, alphabetically, with how possible expansion teams (bolded) would fit in.
  • Arkansas State, 10-3 (21257)
  • Appalachian State, 8-4 (26211 - SoCon)
  • East Carolina, 5-7 (50012 - CUSA)
  • Florida Atlantic, 1-11 (17565)
  • Florida International, 8-5 (18411)
  • Georgia State, 3-8 (14286 - CAA)
  • Louisiana, 9-4 (29171)
  • Louisiana-Monroe, 4-8 (15512)
  • Louisiana Tech, 8-5 (21518 - WAC)
  • Middle Tennessee, 2-10 (18407)
  • North Texas, 5-7 (18864)
  • South Alabama, 6-4 (18442)
  • Southern Miss, 12-2 (28400 - CUSA)
  • Troy, 3-9 (17898)
  • UAB, 3-9 (16579 - CUSA)
  • Western Kentucky, 7-5 (16637)

They'd immediately rank in the upper echelons of attendance. And I'd expect a rather quick jump into high-level competition as well.

ECU and USM????? LOL......I've officially seen it all now.
03-24-2012 06:55 PM
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FIUFanatic Offline
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Post: #456
RE: Georgia State
(03-24-2012 05:56 PM)BLEEDITRED Wrote:  
(03-24-2012 05:44 PM)FIUFanatic Wrote:  I don't know what you call a poor showing (10,000 fans), and how bad, very bad it is, but the fact remains schools like FAU and FIU were in the mix and are presumably wanted by other conferences, notwithstanding your opinion. It is what it is, whether you or me like it or not.

You may very well be in the mix, but at the same time, I'd figure that's what's holding you back.

I have no desire to get into a numbers attendance game with you. I just know that the tv shots of the game did not look good, and that I'm certainly not the first person to bring it up.

I don't like or not like it. Just looking at it objectively.


Everybody knows we are not Notre Dame attendance wise, and believe me, I don't enjoy this type of numbers game anymore than you do. However, I don't see where you come up with the notion anything is "what's holding you back". From what? So, what's holding every other team from the SBC or FCS back then? It's evident it's not as important as some of you think, or might want it to be, since other conference appear to be very interested in adding us. If they ask UNT, or FIU or whoever to join their conference, it's because they want those schools for whatever reasons. It's the truly objective way to look at it, because then, it is a fact.
03-24-2012 08:43 PM
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Post: #457
RE: Georgia State
(03-24-2012 06:55 PM)NoQuarter08 Wrote:  
(02-21-2012 08:52 PM)mtsufan561 Wrote:  
(02-21-2012 08:18 PM)asumike83 Wrote:  Sorry for my ignorance but how would App stack up in terms of attendance within the Sun Belt? Our regular season average was 28,031. We had one playoff game that was lightly attended (15,291) which brought the overall average to 26,211 but it is always hard to get folks up the mountain on short notice during the holidays with an uncertain number of games remaining, which would not be a concern at the FBS level. Our strong attendance really is our #1 selling point, as I'd imagine we would be at least in the top half.

Here's the Sun Belt Conference attendance, alphabetically, with how possible expansion teams (bolded) would fit in.
  • Arkansas State, 10-3 (21257)
  • Appalachian State, 8-4 (26211 - SoCon)
  • East Carolina, 5-7 (50012 - CUSA)
  • Florida Atlantic, 1-11 (17565)
  • Florida International, 8-5 (18411)
  • Georgia State, 3-8 (14286 - CAA)
  • Louisiana, 9-4 (29171)
  • Louisiana-Monroe, 4-8 (15512)
  • Louisiana Tech, 8-5 (3000 + tarps- WAC)
  • Middle Tennessee, 2-10 (18407)
  • North Texas, 5-7 (18864)
  • South Alabama, 6-4 (18442)
  • Southern Miss, 12-2 (28400 - CUSA)
  • Troy, 3-9 (17898)
  • UAB, 3-9 (16579 - CUSA)
  • Western Kentucky, 7-5 (16637)

They'd immediately rank in the upper echelons of attendance. And I'd expect a rather quick jump into high-level competition as well.

ECU and USM????? LOL......I've officially seen it all now.

I fixed La Tech's numbers to compensate for tarps
03-25-2012 07:12 AM
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asumike83 Offline
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Post: #458
RE: Georgia State
Has any indication been given on what sort of time frame we are looking at? Pretty sure C-USA/MWC gave a rough deadline of July 1, not sure if the Belt will have to wait for things to shake out there or make a move preemptively.
03-25-2012 10:42 AM
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