(11-04-2019 12:51 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 09:33 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 08:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(11-04-2019 08:15 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(11-03-2019 10:09 PM)sierrajip Wrote:  (OT) Bowden really screwed up not going to the SEC.

Yes, that’s the problem here. Because the ACC hasn’t produced three champions this decade, including FSU.

Come on. The ACC didn't "produce" those champions. ACC football isn't like ACC basketball, where when a Virginia or Duke wins the national title you can say the ACC "produced" them, because competing in the rigorous ACC made them razor-sharp for competing in the NCAA tournament.

The only way one can say that the ACC helped FSU in the 1990s and in 2013, and Clemson the past 5 years, is in making it easy, via soft competitition, to have great records that made them well-rested for the playoffs. Not that they necessarily needed that, because they are very good teams, but it probably helped. But there was nothing along the lines of the conference schedule tempering their iron in to steel like it does in basketball.

The ACC does not 'produce' football national champions. FSU and Clemson produce their own championships, it's sheer coincidence they are based in the ACC.

Those teams were in the ACC, therefore that conference produced them.

That makes no sense. You have to look at how good the conference was independent of the national champ, and e.g. last year the ACC was the #4 conference, and that was with Clemson's results, which included wins in two NY6 bowl games. Take out Clemson (and the top teams from the other conferences) and they were surely last.

In 2013 when FSU won, the ACC finished last among the P5 conferences including FSU winning the BCS title game.

The ACC doesn't produce football champs, it hosts them. Or maybe it does, by being a very easy launching pad for a very good team to go undefeated and thus play for the title.

So basically you’re arguing with me over the definition of the word “produce”, which has multiple definitions. I’ve already clarified I’m not using it to say the ACC created those elite programs.

From the dictionary:

to bring forward; present to view or notice; exhibit:
to produce one's credentials.

“The ACC sucks at football and has done detriment to football programs.”

“So the ACC produced FSU and Clemson as an answer.”

My main point was to say the ACC did nothing to hinder national championship winning football programs. In fact, the ACC brought in Miami and Virginia Tech to foster the football culture and they both fell off the map more or less! It goes two ways, let’s not blame the ACC for a program’s shortcomings.