(05-29-2019 04:11 PM)CG_Hawk06 Wrote:  

(05-29-2019 03:56 PM)Eldonabe Wrote:  I am not posting this to defend Trump - I am also not here to indict the guy either.


If I really sit back and look at this whole thing (and what Mueller had to say today) as objectively as I can, this is how I would summarize it:

- Mueller's primary objective was to see if the Trump campaign conspired with the Russians to rig the election. It sounds very much like Trump did not do so, however, there was plenty of compelling evidence that Russia did try to push things in one direction or the other. Without saying it - he basically said that you are all missing the point here - RUSSIA WAS F-ING with our election!!!!!! But it was not in the way the Dems had hoped they were.

- In the process of the investigation he came across many other wrongdoings. As a law man, I would think he would be compelled to pursue those things if he became aware of them, and it looks like he did that.

- It does seem that Trump was at the very least trying to divert Mueller and at the very most block Mueller from things. He has stated as clearly as anything that he said today, that his report includes his entire account of those actions and it was up to those who have the real power to act on those findings to do so if they choose.

- Nadler is really walking on a fine line and so is Pelosi. They are playing off of each other right now as each other's excuse to basically not actually do anything, but sound like they really are. It stuns me that ZERO dems have looked at the unredacted Mueller report and briefed their peers. They can see it, but for some reason they choose not to?




The dems are in a really bad spot here. There seems to be smoke but they cannot find the fire. If they go all in on impeachment and lose, their party will get pummeled in the next round of elections and the Republicans will railroad every bag of anti-democrat policy schidt they can, so that it will take a decade or more to reverse it if they every get the chance again.

I have said it before and I will continue to say it. I am a republican at heart (and by registration) but I will vote for the best candidate when someone proves to be one, regardless of party lines - if it is a tie, I go by party lines - even if I have to hold my nose while I pull that lever. It is my humble opinion that many many people vote the same way. The dems are fumbling on this in a big way. Trump is the second most unelectable person who has run for that office in my lifetime and as of right now, the dems still cannot put up somebody who can beat that?

Personality wise, I agree with you. Your intuition on how other Americans is correct for me, but I dare not say that there's A LOT of Americans that vote that way. In 2019, all you have to do is look at facebook and twitter on occasion to see that the majority of folks vote straight party tickets.

IMO, there are two simple reasons that dems can't put up someone who can beat Trump right now. The first is that he's doing a good job with the economy and people seldom want to upend a good economy just because they don't like how someone speaks or tweets. Second (and more importantly), the left has gone so far in the way of identity politics that they've alienated many of the centrist politicians who would stand any sort of chance against Trump based on policy. They value identity politics more than policy politics and are clamoring for a new "first" every four years at the expense of putting up electable candidates.

Agree with both of these posts....

I'd put up one additional thing though...

Trump VERY early on pushed for Mueller to clear the White House/Trump of colluding with Russia... The left said it was because they were trying to stop the investigation, but it seems even MORE clear now that this was because Trump knew he hadn't colluded, and also knew that the specter hanging over him was going to impede his ability to do the job he was elected to do. The report actually quotes him saying this, so it's clear an undeniable.

Yes, Russia trolled social media and tried very hard to hack the DNC, probably the RNC, a few states and I'm sure others. They also tried very hard to 'frame' Trump and his people. I'm actually SHOCKED (and I mean that seriously) that the Trump organization from the top down seems to have for the most part resisted it. I mean, here we have a guy ironically with the handle Machiavelli, trolling the right. How do we know he's not a Russian spy... or if offered information on Trump from say China, would he know NOT to take it? He'd take it and run with it... and he's not a dumb person and for all I know, part of the DNC. Given all the people in the Trump organization with business experience only, I am truly shocked that they were able to avoid being compromised by Russian agents. In business, that would have been de riguer.

Trump only tried to obstruct/end investigations into the Trump organization... not into Russia... and what Mueller is basically saying is hey Dumbocrats... stop focusing on what DIDN'T happen (the President wasn't compromised) and instead focus on what DID happen, that you CLAIMED was what you cared about... Russia influencing our elections.