(05-28-2019 11:16 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 11:07 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't see what your problem is is with what I said, but I will say it again, in different fashion:

The people of 150 years ago could display compassion for the dead of both sides, recognizing that they fought valiantly, even if for a side one did not agree with. The people of today, cannot.

Pulling down monuments to Confederates, whether the monuments are individual or collective, for the dead or for the survivors, fails to display this. Therefore it is something we have lost. Compassion? Empathy? A willingness to see the other side? A willingness to lover the sinner while hating the sin?

I do not understand your complaints about 150 years ago, especially when you quote supposed attitudes from 120 years ago.

I think we should honor the dead. All of them. Not just the ones who fit some modern template of what is acceptable now.

How you get omnipotence and arrogance out of an honest expression of opinion, I don't know, although I am impressed with the arrogance and omnipotence you two are expressing. I am glad y'all stepped down from your pedestals to castigate this wrong-thinker. I might have gone on thinking courage and valor, even in a bad cause, should be recognized.

I quoted a self-professed liberal. I guess y'all think she is arrogant too. Oh, and omnipotent.

You do not "honor the dead" by memorializing the leaders of an insurrection and rebellion...

You honor the dead by memorializing them or the places they died. You notice how there is no concerted effort to remove historical markers at Antietam?

Again, look at how Germany handled WW2. You don't see statues of Hitler or Himmler, commemorating their valor for fighting for what they thought was right. You see monuments dedicated to those who lost their life and were persecuted. You see small remembrances of historically significant areas. You see places like the rally grounds at Nuremberg kept in place, or concentrations camps maintained. All of that is done to remember what happened, honor those that died, but explicitly NOT glorify those who fought for something evil.

I 100% agree that memorials honoring those who died and were scarred by the gruesome war should remain. And that we should keep in place protections that preserve historical places. But I see no reason to leave standing in public memorials of the leaders of a rebellion.

PS - give this persecuted conservative bit a rest - "glad y'all stepped down from your pedestals to castigate this wrong-thinker" - ehgads. Sorry I think your opinion is bad and have told you.

leader of an insurrection or rebellion.....

Can you cite to me the portions of the Constitution or any Supreme Court cases pre-bellum that categorically denied a state (any state) the right or ability to leave the Union?

I will say that undoubtedly the victors wrote the history books (not to mention the subsequent law) on that question, considering that you take that factoid as set in stone.

Funny thing, is that there was just as good precedent for the states to secede at that time as there was for them remaining inviolate in the Union..... much to the contrary of your inference above with the terminology of 'insurrection and rebellion'.

But hey, why let little facts like that get in the way of some rhetoric. Bummer that.....