(05-28-2019 11:16 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-28-2019 11:07 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I don't see what your problem is is with what I said, but I will say it again, in different fashion:

The people of 150 years ago could display compassion for the dead of both sides, recognizing that they fought valiantly, even if for a side one did not agree with. The people of today, cannot.

Pulling down monuments to Confederates, whether the monuments are individual or collective, for the dead or for the survivors, fails to display this. Therefore it is something we have lost. Compassion? Empathy? A willingness to see the other side? A willingness to lover the sinner while hating the sin?

I do not understand your complaints about 150 years ago, especially when you quote supposed attitudes from 120 years ago.

I think we should honor the dead. All of them. Not just the ones who fit some modern template of what is acceptable now.

How you get omnipotence and arrogance out of an honest expression of opinion, I don't know, although I am impressed with the arrogance and omnipotence you two are expressing. I am glad y'all stepped down from your pedestals to castigate this wrong-thinker. I might have gone on thinking courage and valor, even in a bad cause, should be recognized.

I quoted a self-professed liberal. I guess y'all think she is arrogant too. Oh, and omnipotent.

You do not "honor the dead" by memorializing the leaders of an insurrection and rebellion...

You honor the dead by memorializing them or the places they died. You notice how there is no concerted effort to remove historical markers at Antietam?

Again, look at how Germany handled WW2. You don't see statues of Hitler or Himmler, commemorating their valor for fighting for what they thought was right. You see monuments dedicated to those who lost their life and were persecuted. You see small remembrances of historically significant areas. You see places like the rally grounds at Nuremberg kept in place, or concentrations camps maintained. All of that is done to remember what happened, honor those that died, but explicitly NOT glorify those who fought for something evil.

I 100% agree that memorials honoring those who died and were scarred by the gruesome war should remain. And that we should keep in place protections that preserve historical places. But I see no reason to leave standing in public memorials of the leaders of a rebellion.

PS - give this persecuted conservative bit a rest - "glad y'all stepped down from your pedestals to castigate this wrong-thinker" - ehgads. Sorry I think your opinion is bad and have told you.

Hey, it was you guys who brought up arrogant and omnipotent. I still don't know why. I was looking forward to a discussion, buy I was not ready for the personal attacks, and I think your belittling of those attacks is just a further attack.

As for knowing what people of long ago were thinking, I would like to know your sources for the big FU you mention. How do you know that, 120 years later? Did they say FU at the unveiling? I am judging the ladies of 1866 and the President in 1868 by their actions. I agree with their actions. Wish the people of the 21st century could be as magnanimous.

So leaders of rebellions should not be honored or memorialized? I guess we will need to tear down the Washington Monument and the Alamo then. That big statue of Sam Houston on I-45 must go. To hell with the defenders of the Alamo - buncha traitors.

I think the liberal left has rewritten history. As the history professor said in the link I provided (you ought to read it), the war was not fought to free the slaves. Most of the Union was racially prejudiced, and few wanted equality between the races. When blacks were finally allowed to join the Army, they were placed in segregated battalions and under white officers. The slaves in the five slave/Union states were not freed by the Emancipation proclamation. This is not a case of good abolitionists vs. evil slavers.

I have no problem with honoring the dead soldiers of Japan and Germany, for that matter the dead soldiers of any other war. Most of them were not responsible for the evil that (some of) their leaders perpetuated. They fought for country, and fought with valor. If there was a statue of Hitler or Himmler, I would ignore it.

In the link I provided(you really ought to read it), a monument to the "boys in gray" was toppled by a mob. I think that is wrong. It was not a statue of a general. But I think the attitude of "all things Confederate are bad because they were all racists who loved slavery' is spreading and will continue to spread.