I just thought of a solution that can incorporate 12 teams and finish everything by Jan 1st prior to the NCG.

1. Format:

12 teams 6+6 (no surprises). Four conference champs get byes. AQ to last P5 and 1 G5. CAVEAT: 6 At-Large with a twist. Two highest ranked non-CCG participants (likely, due to tie breakers resulting from 2&3rd place teams from divisionless play) qualify for Wild Card game (see Wild Card Game proposal by Crayton). This gives ND a near guaranteed path to QFs if they are among top 3-4 At-Large schools.

2. The schedule:

Stagger the opening playoff matches the second week (WEEK NIGHTS) in December. Two WC teams (ND, etc) that did NOT participate in a CCG play on Tuesday night following first Saturday in December (solves WC game time slot problem, which was cited as a concern). Campus sites. Remaining 3 1st round matches involve CCG losers (that qualify as At-Large), At-Large, and non-bye conference champs. Games are played W-F at campus sites. The drawback: Two teams get only 3 days of rest post respective CCGs.

It is crucial to keep Army Navy and Heisman Saturday unperturbed. It is critical not to move four 1st round playoff games into this Saturday. However, there is a distinct possibility Heisman show will be cancelled and just "announced", like MVP voting in pro sports. Also, Navy Army could be deprioritized and get 12pm ET slot . In this event, first round playoff games can be played the second Saturday in December as a prime time double header. WC game goes to the Friday prior. Four winners advance to QFs. While this scenario is likely, the staggered playoff games allows a somewhat prolonged December break for 8 participating 1st round playoff schools. 3 days of rest or weeknight campus sites may also be a non-starter for some folks, but this is the only place you can play weeknight playoff games.

3. QFs played third Saturday in December at NFL venues. Bye teams play at "home" site as campus sites are unlikely this late in the season.

4. Two SFs NYD including the Rose Bowl annually.

5. NCG the following Monday or Thursday night at least one week post NYD (as is current).


PS: The WC game format also works with 8 teams (6+1+(1/1)) with the WC game played on Tuesday following CCGs. One other CCG loser would qualify as an At-Large. ND is forced to qualify for the WC game, which is a play-in to decide the last At-Large. This game is played on a weeknight at campus site, or it can go to prime time following Army/Navy if Heisman show is cancelled. However, it is unlikely we will get only 8-9 teams in the next iteration.

(07-26-2022 01:09 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 06:32 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 04:21 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 03:36 PM)Claw Wrote:  Semi-finals are going to be a hard ticket to sell. The quarters offer a NYD real-bowl destination. Why miss that chance if your team may lose and be done?

The finals are the finals. You're going to that if your team makes it.

But the semis? Your aren't going to miss the NYD's bowl. Period. If your team makes the finals you have another trip to pay for and schedule. The semis will be for old retired people with plenty of money. Other fans stay home.

You have to find a way to draw people that are not fans of the team to the semis. I'd put them both in Las Vegas.

OR let the higher seed host at home??

That's a fantastic idea! That makes a whole lot of sense to me. Vegas is honestly perfect in that regard - a long weekend location that people would like traveling to, anyway, along with direct flights to and from tons of locations. They've obviously got the hotel infrastructure to handle a huge amount of tourists coming in all at one time, too. Plus, there would likely be a fairly large number of neutral ticket buyers in that location to supplement any fans of the participating teams. There would be college football fans that would just book "Las Vegas Semifinal Week" packages regardless of whether their own teams are involved. (It's almost a supercharged in-person version of how March Madness has become one of the the busiest times of the year in Vegas.) Love it.

I'm a fan of the higher seeds hosting at home, as well, although my guess is that the powers that be want all of those corporate suite dollars that can be sold in an NFL stadium.

Orlando could be another semi-finals location I'm sure Disney would love to push for if 1 city hosts both semis. Orlando isn't too far from Daytona, Cape Canaveral, and Tampa/St. Petersburg either so more than plenty for fans to do. Camping World Stadium appears to the same capacity as Vegas and would be in a non-NFL city. Being an outdoor stadium could be a problem if weather is a concern in January (thinking more of rain than heat), but the field should be already prepped for football with hosting 2 bowl games around New Years. Maybe try to alternate with Vegas and especially in years where the west coast is hosting championship game.

Claw, brilliant idea. I feel kinda dumb for not thinking of it.

There is a case for having one game in Orlando and one in Vegas. Cover both coasts and both family/non-family vacations.

Why not bid this out like the NFL does for the Super Bowl and Draft or the NCAA does for the tournament? Rotate throughout the country instead of a dedicated city or two.

(07-24-2022 01:48 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Let's assume the 6+6 format, or a straight 12 format, with December first round games and New Year's Day quarterfinals. (One QF on either Jan 2 or Dec 31). 2 Semifinals in January and then a National Championship game. And at least 7 days between rounds--nobody should be playing a playoff game on 6 days rest.

CFP honcho Bill Hancock has said that the NCG is on a Monday because fans have to travel, and a Monday is at least weekend-adjacent.

The NFL season will now run 18 weeks, with 2 Saturday games on Week 18, and 6 playoff games on Wild Card Weekend--2 on Saturday, 3 on Sunday, 1 on Monday.

So Saturday is out, Sunday was never an option. And now at least one Monday is now spoken for.

That leaves Friday, and since there are only so many hours in prime time, a game on Thursday.

So something like

First Round:
2nd/3rd Saturday in December. 2 games on campus
3rd/4th Saturday in December. 2 games on campus

Quarterfinals
New Years Day (or Jan 2). 12:30 QF bowl, 5:00 QF Rose Bowl, 8:30 QF Bowl.
New YEars Eve: QF Bowl (If Jan 1 is a Sunday, 4th QF is probably on Tues Jan 3)

Semifinals
SEcond Thursday in January (Jan 8-14)
Friday, Day after Second Thurdsay (Jan 9-15)

National Championship Game
Friday, 8 days after Second Thursday in January. (Jan 16-22)
Or Monday, 11 days after second Thursday in January. (Jan 19-25). Edit.

Comments? Did I miss something important?

I'm assuming the Rose Bowl gets a permanent QF slot, and lets the other 5 NY6 bowls rotate the 3 QF's and 2 semis, and the semifinal bowls don't play a New Years' Day/Eve/Week game.

EDIT: Here it is in more calendar-ish form. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing

Thanks for laying this out. I guess my only comment would be I wish the New Years bowl games could be semifinals instead of quarters. A nitpick.

(08-06-2022 01:13 PM)NotoriousOne Wrote:  

(07-26-2022 01:09 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 06:32 PM)GoBuckeyes1047 Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 04:21 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(07-25-2022 03:36 PM)Claw Wrote:  Semi-finals are going to be a hard ticket to sell. The quarters offer a NYD real-bowl destination. Why miss that chance if your team may lose and be done?

The finals are the finals. You're going to that if your team makes it.

But the semis? Your aren't going to miss the NYD's bowl. Period. If your team makes the finals you have another trip to pay for and schedule. The semis will be for old retired people with plenty of money. Other fans stay home.

You have to find a way to draw people that are not fans of the team to the semis. I'd put them both in Las Vegas.

OR let the higher seed host at home??

That's a fantastic idea! That makes a whole lot of sense to me. Vegas is honestly perfect in that regard - a long weekend location that people would like traveling to, anyway, along with direct flights to and from tons of locations. They've obviously got the hotel infrastructure to handle a huge amount of tourists coming in all at one time, too. Plus, there would likely be a fairly large number of neutral ticket buyers in that location to supplement any fans of the participating teams. There would be college football fans that would just book "Las Vegas Semifinal Week" packages regardless of whether their own teams are involved. (It's almost a supercharged in-person version of how March Madness has become one of the the busiest times of the year in Vegas.) Love it.

I'm a fan of the higher seeds hosting at home, as well, although my guess is that the powers that be want all of those corporate suite dollars that can be sold in an NFL stadium.

Orlando could be another semi-finals location I'm sure Disney would love to push for if 1 city hosts both semis. Orlando isn't too far from Daytona, Cape Canaveral, and Tampa/St. Petersburg either so more than plenty for fans to do. Camping World Stadium appears to the same capacity as Vegas and would be in a non-NFL city. Being an outdoor stadium could be a problem if weather is a concern in January (thinking more of rain than heat), but the field should be already prepped for football with hosting 2 bowl games around New Years. Maybe try to alternate with Vegas and especially in years where the west coast is hosting championship game.

Claw, brilliant idea. I feel kinda dumb for not thinking of it.

There is a case for having one game in Orlando and one in Vegas. Cover both coasts and both family/non-family vacations.

Why not bid this out like the NFL does for the Super Bowl and Draft or the NCAA does for the tournament? Rotate throughout the country instead of a dedicated city or two.

EDIT: I was responding to the same idea in a very differnet thread.

A lot can go wrong in terms of game-day experience and the look of the event on television. My whole reason for an 8-team double-ladder is to create an event atmosphere, where everything is important and theres' not so much of it that a casually attached fan (filled out a bracket at work for the pool their buddy runs) can't watch all of it.

1. It's a doubleheader football game. That's a lot of football to sit through. Which should be good, but it's something that hasn't been done at this scale.
2. The matchups are announced 6 days in advance--that's not enough time to arrange travel and lodging for a stadium-sized crowd, unless it's sold in advance.

To sell this in advance, you can't rely on Ohio State or Ole Miss bringing their fanbase to fill up the stadium and hotels like you can with a bowl game. You don't know if Ohio STate is playing.

You can make up some of that with the doubleheader aspect. Last year it would have been Notre Dame, Ohio State, Baylor, Ole Miss. If everybody brings their fanbase that can make this happen on 6 days notice, then you're halfway there.

But a lot of it would have to be people buying tickets to the event, no matter who's playing. For that, I think you have to package it with some magic, a once-in-a-lifetime weekend (that you maybe do again next year). Your Saturday is taken care of--you're at the stadium all day watching football. But I think you have to combine it with something else.

Vegas and Orlando are obvious choices--some of the easiest places in the US to fly to on short notice, ready-made entertainment options.

Nashville might be an option--drive on Friday, party on Friday night, on Saturday night postgame, drive on Sunday. Most of the P5 is within a 10 hour drive.

If you just take the highest bidder, the event could just fail. Low attendance, grumpy crowd, bad reviews. Not a big fun event that people want to be a part of by association in their living rooms.

12 team playoff. With an expanded playoff there's no need for conference championship games so start the 1st rd that weekend at campus sites. Quarterfinals 3rd weekend again on campus. Semis at Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl on NYD with Championship to rotate between Arlington, ATL, Orlando.

(08-07-2022 08:16 AM)ShakeNBake Wrote:  12 team playoff. With an expanded playoff there's no need for conference championship games so start the 1st rd that weekend at campus sites. Quarterfinals 3rd weekend again on campus. Semis at Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl on NYD with Championship to rotate between Arlington, ATL, Orlando.

But that means less money. The point of expanding the playoff is MORE money, not less.

I think having the semifinals mid week (non Saturday or Sunday) is going to ruin them. Having them on New Year's Eve really hurt their ratings, having them on, looking at January 2023, 9th and 10th or 12th and 13th if they went the Thursday and Friday route would have them in NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament championship game ratings or conference championship game ratings numbers. I think they have to keep the semifinals New Year's Day or Saturday before (preferably New Year's Day permanently, either make the Rose and Sugar Bowls permanent hosts or just tell them the semifinals get those slots and if they want to have their games New Year's Day they will have to compete with the semifinals) and have any rounds before then before then, moving anything before then. The NCAA women's volleyball tournament is completed in its entirety in December as are probably many fall sports when many schools are in final exams, there's no reason football can't accommodate. If the season gets pushed up a week or two, so be it.

The big problem an expanded playoff us going to face is stadium attendance. Neutral site games mean the fans mostly travel to get there. Round after Round, werk after week.

It works for the NCAA tournament because it's such an event that next year's tickets are halfway sold to locals.

Buy your tickets now for next March, you're gonna see Sweet Sixteen action. Who's playing, who cares?

The first round of campus games will be fine.
The New Years Day bowls will be okay--the fans of the conference champs will fill the stadiums pretty much like now.

The semis and maybe the NCG are the question marks. Who do we expect to fill those stadiums?

Fans who just bought Rose/Sugar/Fiesta tickets )and hotel rooms, plane tickets etc)?

Corporate seat holders?

Local college football diehards?

And it's a long-,term problem for CFB. If the games are a TV dud, the contract-after-this-one suffers.

But that's tomorrow's problem I guess

(07-24-2022 01:48 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Let's assume the 6+6 format, or a straight 12 format, with December first round games and New Year's Day quarterfinals. (One QF on either Jan 2 or Dec 31). 2 Semifinals in January and then a National Championship game. And at least 7 days between rounds--nobody should be playing a playoff game on 6 days rest.

CFP honcho Bill Hancock has said that the NCG is on a Monday because fans have to travel, and a Monday is at least weekend-adjacent.

The NFL season will now run 18 weeks, with 2 Saturday games on Week 18, and 6 playoff games on Wild Card Weekend--2 on Saturday, 3 on Sunday, 1 on Monday.

So Saturday is out, Sunday was never an option. And now at least one Monday is now spoken for.

That leaves Friday, and since there are only so many hours in prime time, a game on Thursday.

So something like

First Round:
2nd/3rd Saturday in December. 2 games on campus
3rd/4th Saturday in December. 2 games on campus
EDIT: I forgot that the NFL now plays a Saturday night game in Week 15, kicked off at 8:20 last year. So at least one of these games kicks off at noon or so.

Quarterfinals
New Years Day (or Jan 2). 12:30 QF bowl, 5:00 QF Rose Bowl, 8:30 QF Bowl.
New YEars Eve: QF Bowl (If Jan 1 is a Sunday, 4th QF is probably on Tues Jan 3)

Semifinals
SEcond Thursday in January (Jan 8-14)
Friday, Day after Second Thurdsay (Jan 9-15)

National Championship Game
Friday, 8 days after Second Thursday in January. (Jan 16-22)
Or Monday, 11 days after second Thursday in January. (Jan 19-25). Edit.

Comments? Did I miss something important?

I'm assuming the Rose Bowl gets a permanent QF slot, and lets the other 5 NY6 bowls rotate the 3 QF's and 2 semis, and the semifinal bowls don't play a New Years' Day/Eve/Week game.

EDIT: Here it is in more calendar-ish form. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing

I'll just wait and see what the CFP System is when the new one gets here. Too many scenarios spinning through right now to seriously follow.

(08-07-2022 10:09 AM)panite Wrote:  

(07-24-2022 01:48 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  Let's assume the 6+6 format, or a straight 12 format, with December first round games and New Year's Day quarterfinals. (One QF on either Jan 2 or Dec 31). 2 Semifinals in January and then a National Championship game. And at least 7 days between rounds--nobody should be playing a playoff game on 6 days rest.

CFP honcho Bill Hancock has said that the NCG is on a Monday because fans have to travel, and a Monday is at least weekend-adjacent.

The NFL season will now run 18 weeks, with 2 Saturday games on Week 18, and 6 playoff games on Wild Card Weekend--2 on Saturday, 3 on Sunday, 1 on Monday.

So Saturday is out, Sunday was never an option. And now at least one Monday is now spoken for.

That leaves Friday, and since there are only so many hours in prime time, a game on Thursday.

So something like

First Round:
2nd/3rd Saturday in December. 2 games on campus
3rd/4th Saturday in December. 2 games on campus
EDIT: I forgot that the NFL now plays a Saturday night game in Week 15, kicked off at 8:20 last year. So at least one of these games kicks off at noon or so.

Quarterfinals
New Years Day (or Jan 2). 12:30 QF bowl, 5:00 QF Rose Bowl, 8:30 QF Bowl.
New YEars Eve: QF Bowl (If Jan 1 is a Sunday, 4th QF is probably on Tues Jan 3)

Semifinals
SEcond Thursday in January (Jan 8-14)
Friday, Day after Second Thurdsay (Jan 9-15)

National Championship Game
Friday, 8 days after Second Thursday in January. (Jan 16-22)
Or Monday, 11 days after second Thursday in January. (Jan 19-25). Edit.

Comments? Did I miss something important?

I'm assuming the Rose Bowl gets a permanent QF slot, and lets the other 5 NY6 bowls rotate the 3 QF's and 2 semis, and the semifinal bowls don't play a New Years' Day/Eve/Week game.

EDIT: Here it is in more calendar-ish form. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing

I'll just wait and see what the CFP System is when the new one gets here. Too many scenarios spinning through right now to seriously follow.

I just wanted to take the mostly likely system and see how it works out logistically. I'm not sure who they expect to travel to those semifinals though

(08-07-2022 08:21 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(08-07-2022 08:16 AM)ShakeNBake Wrote:  12 team playoff. With an expanded playoff there's no need for conference championship games so start the 1st rd that weekend at campus sites. Quarterfinals 3rd weekend again on campus. Semis at Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl on NYD with Championship to rotate between Arlington, ATL, Orlando.

But that means less money. The point of expanding the playoff is MORE money, not less.

True. I know they won't eliminate conference championship games.

Now that they no longer need to appease the 6 bowls, I think they’d seriously consider keeping the semis on NYD and have the quarterfinals and playins (hosted by the top 8 teams) filling mid-December.

(08-07-2022 02:15 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Now that they no longer need to appease the 6 bowls, I think they’d seriously consider keeping the semis on NYD and have the quarterfinals and playins (hosted by the top 8 teams) filling mid-December.

It's not really the bowls they need to appease--it's the Big Ten and their love for the Rose Bowl. Besides the Rose Bowl, the bowl committees are vestigial, it's just a game in a stadium, no different from a Kickoff Classic in Atlanta or JerryWorld or Las Vegas.

If the Big Ten no longer values the Rose Bowl, then the bowls are finished as players in the system, reduced to supplicants like the G5, accepting whatever scraps are thrown their way.

The bowls can be semis, or quarters, or whatever the Big Ten and SEC decide they need to be.

^I was under the impression that last year’s proposal needed consent from ALL parties: conferences, ESPN, and bowls. That proposal “had to” upgrade the NY6’s hand if it wanted their consent. After 2026, as johnbragg says, the bowls like the G5 will take whatever they can get.

I am still not convinced the conferences will agree on a structure with each other before the Big Ten and SEC start gobbling up New Years bowl contracts. Last time even while they were negotiating a 4-team playoff, they all still staked claim of their bowls, causing the Semis to be the 4th/5th Saturday of December more often than NYD.

I don't think the RB will mind if they get a SF every year. More than likely a B1G in the top 2 rankings will host the lower seed there. The problem is when you have an SEC and ACC school in there and the Sugar Bowl has a higher ranked SEC already there. However, we've already had OU UGa in one of the great RBs of all time. Aesthetically, it will still look good with an SEC vs ACC.