(05-13-2022 10:40 AM)Bluedevil16 Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 10:34 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 09:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  I think UVa, UNC, and Duke will stick together no matter what happens,

This seems every bit as certain as Notre Dame never joining the ACC for football.

Which is good because the Heels, Hoos and Devils always should be in the same conference

Just not sure the SEC or Big 10 would take Duke (saying this as a Duke fan). Hope we have a home in the future, but smaller private schools that aren’t great at football don’t necessarily jump out to these conferences.

I don't like Duke (LOL), but IMO both the SEC and B1G would be happy to have you.

I know it's great to talk and speculate aboutvtbungs we care about as humans. But I see no break away by the P5. Why break away? When your king of the hill.

(05-13-2022 06:44 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I know it's great to talk and speculate aboutvtbungs we care about as humans. But I see no break away by the P5. Why break away? When your king of the hill.

Because there’s growing wealth inequality at the P5, and it’s not yet one entity answering to a commissioner. It’s still conferences and schools trying to get theirs. Everyone wants more, otherwise they fall behind.

That’s why a fairly balanced P2 is the only solution now. There’s no combination to get a balanced P3 or P4 or P5.

This isn’t about pulling away from the G5. If that occurs it’s a side benefit. It’s about brand consolidation of the P5 level to make the network more while giving the top 48 or so more money and more level playing fields. Whether that means formal separation is not clear, but not really impactful to anything below American conference. The leftovers of P5 the main losers

Not the top 48. The top 35 or so and the 13 cling-ons. Let's at least properly label them if this farce comes to fruition.

(05-13-2022 08:36 PM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  Not the top 48. The top 35 or so and the 13 cling-ons. Let's at least properly label them if this farce comes to fruition.

Sure, by there aren't 35 schools of equal revenue, so what's your point?

(05-13-2022 08:36 PM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  Not the top 48. The top 35 or so and the 13 cling-ons. Let's at least properly label them if this farce comes to fruition.

It's more like the top 13 and 35 or so Cling-ons. If you go by value of the programs.

(05-13-2022 08:56 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 08:36 PM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  Not the top 48. The top 35 or so and the 13 cling-ons. Let's at least properly label them if this farce comes to fruition.

Sure, by there aren't 35 schools of equal revenue, so what's your point?

There aren't two schools of equal revenue, so I don't understand the rebuttal. There are good and bad athletic departments though.

My point is, DON'T CALL THEM THE TOP 48. They aren't. If you want to say the top 2 conferences, that would be true. There are literally 13-15 teams in those conferences right now, before expansion, that would be ass-draggers in any of the other major conferences. The true top 48 schools would include several athletic departments that have no chance of joining the Big 10 or SEC.

Let's just examine the ass-end of each conference. How many schools right now, not in the BIG or SEC, are better at athletics than Rutgers or Vandy? Forty? Fifty? At least Vandy is good at baseball. What is Rutgers good at? My point is, never call it the top 30 (which is the current membership), or the top 48. It's the top 2 conferences.

(05-13-2022 05:17 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 10:40 AM)Bluedevil16 Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 10:34 AM)PeteTheChop Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 09:49 AM)esayem Wrote:  I think UVa, UNC, and Duke will stick together no matter what happens,

This seems every bit as certain as Notre Dame never joining the ACC for football.

Which is good because the Heels, Hoos and Devils always should be in the same conference

Just not sure the SEC or Big 10 would take Duke (saying this as a Duke fan). Hope we have a home in the future, but smaller private schools that aren’t great at football don’t necessarily jump out to these conferences.

I don't like Duke (LOL), but IMO both the SEC and B1G would be happy to have you.

I don't like Duke either.

(05-15-2022 09:59 AM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 08:56 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 08:36 PM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  Not the top 48. The top 35 or so and the 13 cling-ons. Let's at least properly label them if this farce comes to fruition.

Sure, by there aren't 35 schools of equal revenue, so what's your point?

There aren't two schools of equal revenue, so I don't understand the rebuttal. There are good and bad athletic departments though.

The true top 48 schools would include several athletic departments that have no chance of joining the Big 10 or SEC.

I imagine you would not understand, given your initial rebuttal. Calling it the top-48 does not imply unequivocally that 48th is better than 49th.

Do you protest the top-25 rankings being called the top-25?

At 48, there won't be many on the outside that should clearly be in. That is why you said top-35! At 48, some fat has been included.

Define better? This is largely about revenue, and potential revenue. With some history and fit mixed in. A close correlation to covering the top college sports markets, via the top 48 brands that can draw outside their market, while limiting redundancy. At 48, you have nearly every top market covered, some with redundancy. It adds the best of the P12, ACC, and Big 12 to the BIG and SEC.

The ones that perhaps should not be in there- Miss St, MSU, Purdue, Vandy, NW. That's it imo. And due to decades of conference affiliation, a couple of those pull better than their performance or inherent qualities. Who is out that maybe should be in? Well, we'd need to know which ACC schools get it. Louisville, Miami, Arizona St (if AZ goes to the BIG)? Baylor and Ok St get decent ratings, but their markets are covered- you'd be removing one redundancy for another.

(05-13-2022 12:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 12:31 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 12:07 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 11:16 AM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  What happened to the Big XII in this scenario? UC, UCF, and WVU aren't leaving the Big XII to join this conference. PITT and Louisville would be on their knees in Dallas begging for admission.

If 9 ACC teams get in the SEC and Big Ten, then Kansas probably got in somewhere as well. In this scenario I think the Big XII would pick over the ACC remnants for a few select properties.

Come on you’re smarter than that. You been here a while. You’ve seen the death of The ACC reported here multiple times. Every time it didn’t work out like it was predicted. This time will be no different.

Has it been reported by ACC ADs before? When facing a $500 million revenue gap over 10 years?

It could be bluster, but what exactly are they going to get from shaking down Phillips?

And the PAC and the crippled Big 12 are not facing the same gap?
The NB12 will probably get somewhere between the current Big 12 $$ and what the AAC is now getting paid in their next contract, if they are lucky.

I don't think so. If ESPN starts a new Big 12 Network to get each schools including the new ones? ESPN could do a hail mary to bring in the schools like Temple, Buffalo, Toledo or Ohio, UCONN, UMASS, USF, ECU, UAB, UTSA, SMU, Northern Illinois, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, UTSA, Air Force, Navy, Army, Colorado State, UNR, UNLV, Boise State, San Diego State and Fresno State. This would stick a thumb in the eyes to CBS sports where the AAC could backfill with MAC and SBC schools where the two can canabilized conferences like ASUN, CUSA, MVC, Youngstown State, SoCon and CAA. Might see some SWAC schools and OVC schools get the call. It could be a start that way to break D1 up even more from football playing members to the rest which means Big East and WCC basketball will be 1AA which put pressure on those schools to add football or upgrade to stay with the Big Boys.

(05-17-2022 05:01 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 12:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 12:31 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 12:07 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 11:16 AM)BatonRougeEscapee Wrote:  What happened to the Big XII in this scenario? UC, UCF, and WVU aren't leaving the Big XII to join this conference. PITT and Louisville would be on their knees in Dallas begging for admission.

If 9 ACC teams get in the SEC and Big Ten, then Kansas probably got in somewhere as well. In this scenario I think the Big XII would pick over the ACC remnants for a few select properties.

Come on you’re smarter than that. You been here a while. You’ve seen the death of The ACC reported here multiple times. Every time it didn’t work out like it was predicted. This time will be no different.

Has it been reported by ACC ADs before? When facing a $500 million revenue gap over 10 years?

It could be bluster, but what exactly are they going to get from shaking down Phillips?

And the PAC and the crippled Big 12 are not facing the same gap?
The NB12 will probably get somewhere between the current Big 12 $$ and what the AAC is now getting paid in their next contract, if they are lucky.

I don't think so. If ESPN starts a new Big 12 Network to get each schools including the new ones? ESPN could do a hail mary to bring in the schools like Temple, Buffalo, Toledo or Ohio, UCONN, UMASS, USF, ECU, UAB, UTSA, SMU, Northern Illinois, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, UTSA, Air Force, Navy, Army, Colorado State, UNR, UNLV, Boise State, San Diego State and Fresno State. This would stick a thumb in the eyes to CBS sports where the AAC could backfill with MAC and SBC schools where the two can canabilized conferences like ASUN, CUSA, MVC, Youngstown State, SoCon and CAA. Might see some SWAC schools and OVC schools get the call. It could be a start that way to break D1 up even more from football playing members to the rest which means Big East and WCC basketball will be 1AA which put pressure on those schools to add football or upgrade to stay with the Big Boys.

David the G5 at this point in time I believe is operating with P6 mentality.

There are very few in the G5 that are not happy with their conference alignment at this point. They all know they don't have the resources to compete in a P5 over the longer term. What they want to be is that 6th best conference with a team in the Top 10 and a team in the Top 20. They want as many linear appearances as possible to help in recruiting.

The P5 uses the G5 as pawns but where they sit on the "chess board" may change. SEC likes to use them as leverage against the ACC to try to keep them down. B1G has in the past a tight relationship with the MAC. MAC is the ultimate pawn as its not viewed as a threat by the P5 unlike the AAC.

(05-17-2022 11:03 AM)Kit-Cat Wrote:  

(05-17-2022 05:01 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 12:47 PM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 12:31 PM)Big 12 fan too Wrote:  

(05-13-2022 12:07 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Come on you’re smarter than that. You been here a while. You’ve seen the death of The ACC reported here multiple times. Every time it didn’t work out like it was predicted. This time will be no different.

Has it been reported by ACC ADs before? When facing a $500 million revenue gap over 10 years?

It could be bluster, but what exactly are they going to get from shaking down Phillips?

And the PAC and the crippled Big 12 are not facing the same gap?
The NB12 will probably get somewhere between the current Big 12 $$ and what the AAC is now getting paid in their next contract, if they are lucky.

I don't think so. If ESPN starts a new Big 12 Network to get each schools including the new ones? ESPN could do a hail mary to bring in the schools like Temple, Buffalo, Toledo or Ohio, UCONN, UMASS, USF, ECU, UAB, UTSA, SMU, Northern Illinois, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, UTSA, Air Force, Navy, Army, Colorado State, UNR, UNLV, Boise State, San Diego State and Fresno State. This would stick a thumb in the eyes to CBS sports where the AAC could backfill with MAC and SBC schools where the two can canabilized conferences like ASUN, CUSA, MVC, Youngstown State, SoCon and CAA. Might see some SWAC schools and OVC schools get the call. It could be a start that way to break D1 up even more from football playing members to the rest which means Big East and WCC basketball will be 1AA which put pressure on those schools to add football or upgrade to stay with the Big Boys.

David the G5 at this point in time I believe is operating with P6 mentality.

There are very few in the G5 that are not happy with their conference alignment at this point. They all know they don't have the resources to compete in a P5 over the longer term. What they want to be is that 6th best conference with a team in the Top 10 and a team in the Top 20. They want as many linear appearances as possible to help in recruiting.

The P5 uses the G5 as pawns but where they sit on the "chess board" may change. SEC likes to use them as leverage against the ACC to try to keep them down. B1G has in the past a tight relationship with the MAC. MAC is the ultimate pawn as its not viewed as a threat by the P5 unlike the AAC.

It will be at least 10 years, if even that for the AAC to be considered a threat again. However, with how past everything is changing, who knows what crazy setup will be in place by then.

(05-17-2022 05:01 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I don't think so. If ESPN starts a new Big 12 Network to get each schools including the new ones? ESPN could do a hail mary to bring in the schools like Temple, Buffalo, Toledo or Ohio, UCONN, UMASS, USF, ECU, UAB, UTSA, SMU, Northern Illinois, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, UTSA, Air Force, Navy, Army, Colorado State, UNR, UNLV, Boise State, San Diego State and Fresno State. This would stick a thumb in the eyes to CBS sports where the AAC could backfill with MAC and SBC schools where the two can canabilized conferences like ASUN, CUSA, MVC, Youngstown State, SoCon and CAA. Might see some SWAC schools and OVC schools get the call. It could be a start that way to break D1 up even more from football playing members to the rest which means Big East and WCC basketball will be 1AA which put pressure on those schools to add football or upgrade to stay with the Big Boys.

So ESPN is going to start a Big 12 Network after Texas and Oklahoma leave? I guess it’s possible but unlikely.

It would however be the first time ESPN agreed to work with a conference after having a “public disagreement”.

In May 2011 The Big East turned down ESPN’s contract offer of 11 million per team. Instead The Big East decided to go to the open market. Four months later, in September 2011, The ACC invited Syracuse and Pittsburgh to join.

The next month The Big 12 invited WVU to join.

Less than 6 months after turning down their offer, nearly half of The Big East’s football playing members announced they were leaving the conference.

Now fast forward to last July when The Big 12 threatened ESPN and The American with legal action for trying to destabilize their conference. As The Big East found out ESPN has a long memory.

It’s going to be interesting watching how this all plays out.

(05-18-2022 01:41 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  

(05-17-2022 05:01 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  I don't think so. If ESPN starts a new Big 12 Network to get each schools including the new ones? ESPN could do a hail mary to bring in the schools like Temple, Buffalo, Toledo or Ohio, UCONN, UMASS, USF, ECU, UAB, UTSA, SMU, Northern Illinois, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, UTSA, Air Force, Navy, Army, Colorado State, UNR, UNLV, Boise State, San Diego State and Fresno State. This would stick a thumb in the eyes to CBS sports where the AAC could backfill with MAC and SBC schools where the two can canabilized conferences like ASUN, CUSA, MVC, Youngstown State, SoCon and CAA. Might see some SWAC schools and OVC schools get the call. It could be a start that way to break D1 up even more from football playing members to the rest which means Big East and WCC basketball will be 1AA which put pressure on those schools to add football or upgrade to stay with the Big Boys.

So ESPN is going to start a Big 12 Network after Texas and Oklahoma leave? I guess it’s possible but unlikely.

It would however be the first time ESPN agreed to work with a conference after having a “public disagreement”.

In May 2011 The Big East turned down ESPN’s contract offer of 11 million per team. Instead The Big East decided to go to the open market. Four months later, in September 2011, The ACC invited Syracuse and Pittsburgh to join.

The next month The Big 12 invited WVU to join.

Less than 6 months after turning down their offer, nearly half of The Big East’s football playing members announced they were leaving the conference.

Now fast forward to last July when The Big 12 threatened ESPN and The American with legal action for trying to destabilize their conference. As The Big East found out ESPN has a long memory.

It’s going to be interesting watching how this all plays out.

The Big XII is under contract with ESPN+, which makes it very hard to even come up with enough games for a linear network, regardless of profit.

Big 12 "little-8" ESPN+ contract runs out in 2025.

Entire package for all 12 schools up for negotiation in 2025.