(09-18-2021 07:43 PM)75src Wrote:  Negativism on the board means there are fans that care. I would worry when no one cares to comment. There are plenty of negative comments made by Aggie, longhorn etc. fans.

(09-18-2021 01:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-17-2021 05:01 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Attack me all you want-- good on you. However, you're dead wrong if you think that the negativism that has overtaken this board over the past couple years-- with numerous posters simply repeating the same old gripes and doomsday scenarios ad nauseum-- has not run many quality posters off of here.

The negativism on this board is nothing but an accurate reflection of the negative results on the field. You get seasons of 3-9, 1-11, 2-11, 3-9, 2-3, and now 0-2 by any major program, and the conversations on their message boards would make this look like Pollyanna.

There's a difference between negative comments regarding the on-field/on-court performance and repetitive doom & gloom comments about Rice athletics and the University in general. It's the latter which is getting awful old for a lot of people.

(09-18-2021 07:50 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(09-18-2021 07:43 PM)75src Wrote:  Negativism on the board means there are fans that care. I would worry when no one cares to comment. There are plenty of negative comments made by Aggie, longhorn etc. fans.

(09-18-2021 01:28 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(09-17-2021 05:01 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  Attack me all you want-- good on you. However, you're dead wrong if you think that the negativism that has overtaken this board over the past couple years-- with numerous posters simply repeating the same old gripes and doomsday scenarios ad nauseum-- has not run many quality posters off of here.

The negativism on this board is nothing but an accurate reflection of the negative results on the field. You get seasons of 3-9, 1-11, 2-11, 3-9, 2-3, and now 0-2 by any major program, and the conversations on their message boards would make this look like Pollyanna.

There's a difference between negative comments regarding the on-field/on-court performance and repetitive doom & gloom comments about Rice athletics and the University in general. It's the latter which is getting awful old for a lot of people.

It’s a university in Texas.. the program people care about is football, and to a lesser extent, baseball and hoops.

I’m happy we have a great women’s soccer team. But it’s not the same, so stop acting like it is.

(09-18-2021 07:59 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  It’s a university in Texas.. the program people care about is football, and to a lesser extent, baseball and hoops.

I’m happy we have a great women’s soccer team. But it’s not the same, so stop acting like it is.

I love our track and field/cross country programs.

They don't move the needle one centimeter.

Football is 16-52 since the beginning of the 2015 season. THAT is what gives people the (false) impression about ALL of Rice athletics.

(09-18-2021 08:23 PM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(09-18-2021 07:59 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  It’s a university in Texas.. the program people care about is football, and to a lesser extent, baseball and hoops.

I’m happy we have a great women’s soccer team. But it’s not the same, so stop acting like it is.

I love our track and field/cross country programs.

They don't move the needle one centimeter.

Football is 16-52 since the beginning of the 2015 season. THAT is what gives people the (false) impression about ALL of Rice athletics.

This.

I am excited about all of the Olympic sports. The problem for them is that football is THE driver of conference realignment. If you want to be in a better conference, football is the way to get there. CAN you do it from elsewhere?? Sure. Does it happen often? No. By and large, where are the best women's soccer programs? What about T&F? What about Volleyball? By and large, they are all part of Universities that participate at the highest level in football OR have the virtue of being (again, generally) a New England school where basketball is as big and sometimes bigger. WHY?? (and this is important) Because the higher costs of football and basketball lead to higher spending on (especially) women's sports. For those who think there are 'resources to be allocated elsewhere if we drop football', that's just not going to be the case. If we drop to a lower level, our spending will drop to something more like what they spend. NO WAY we'll be spending $500k on a women's program if we don't have a men's program spending $1.5mm and everyone else in our league is spending 250k.

I think Joe has done a very good job with those programs. Frankly, I think this is the 'low(er) hanging fruit' for a school like Rice. I think those programs and 'high academia' more often go hand-in-hand in people's minds, while for football and basketball, for some reason they do not. I suspect it is the money that is possible after college, which means there is money going to SOMEONE during college. Unless you're Usain Bolt or similar, there is not a lot of money in being a track or volleyball person.... certainly not as compared to the number of college participants. The thing is though, there is no correlation nor inverse relationship between intelligence and athletic ability.... but if you have the intelligence to make six figures as a graduate, why would you participate in a sport after college that doesn't pay AT LEAST that well? On the other side, how many people get paid six and even seven figures straight out of college playing football and basketball vs regular graduates?

That's all rhetorical.

Bottom line, football in Texas is important. Football has been part of Rice for almost 100 years now. It is important to a significant (relative to our total) number of alumni and USED to be important to our students (and is at other places) so it could be again.

The problem isn't that football has gotten 'bigger' at other schools... it's that football has gotten SMALLER at Rice. Computers and technology and specialized training etc has all certainly increased the costs, but this is the case in all sorts of other things as well. Some other schools have just either spent more/solicited it as part of the endowment or involved students more.

I mean seriously... think about what the band at say Michigan or UT spends vs the Mob

Rice's current class sizes (admitting and graduating undergrads each year) are 900-1,000 undergrads. Approximately 20 of those each year are football players. That 2-3% of undergrad alumni accounts for a disproportionate share of Rice's diversity (aka the percentage of black football players is higher than the percentage of black non-football players). This is even more true if you go back 10+ years to when Rice's had smaller undgrad population.

Additionally, looking at some of the older fellas, I would guess a disproportionate share of Rice's alumni donations are also former football players.

So there are plenty of good reasons to keep Rice D1 and to strive for football success, even for people who think Rice football can never win. It is an integral part of Rice's identity for many alums.

(09-20-2021 12:12 PM)mrbig Wrote:  Rice's current class sizes (admitting and graduating undergrads each year) are 900-1,000 undergrads. Approximately 20 of those each year are football players. That 2-3% of undergrad alumni accounts for a disproportionate share of Rice's diversity (aka the percentage of black football players is higher than the percentage of black non-football players). This is even more true if you go back 10+ years to when Rice's had smaller undgrad population.

Additionally, looking at some of the older fellas, I would guess a disproportionate share of Rice's alumni donations are also former football players.

So there are plenty of good reasons to keep Rice D1 and to strive for football success, even for people who think Rice football can never win. It is an integral part of Rice's identity for many alums.

This. I've tried to say this but lacked the confidence to say it so clearly.

Some have said things like, if we drop football, we can use the savings to increase our outreach to black students elsewhere.... but the reality is that a scholarship is a scholarship, and if we are only something like 8% or so black students (which I think is close) then we should already be doing that IN ADDITION to sports, not IN PLACE of them.

And yes, its an integral part. As is/was the MOB, Rally Club, Cheer and some other student activities that are strongly tied to football.