(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 06:44 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  As a semi spiritual person who believes in the Ten Commandments I can't see how anyone who proclaims themselves Christian can support abortion in any except the most extreme cases.

But as an American, do you believe that your beliefs are somehow more important than someone else who does not think that?

I personally don't think I would ever choose to have an abortion (unless it were life or death, since I already have a child & would choose to stay here for him), but it is absolutely none of my business what the person 2 streets over chooses to do - that's between them, their family, and their beliefs.

It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

Wouldn't your last paragraph be similar to German "Christians" that didn't give a crap about the Nazis murdering Jews? Murder is murder it doesn't matter who is committing it. Are you okay that there are Blacks killing other Blacks in Schiff Towns all over the US? Wouldn't that come under "it's their decision?" So, since you're not committing the murders I guess in your eyes it's perfectly justified because those committing the murders are okay with it.

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 06:44 AM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  As a semi spiritual person who believes in the Ten Commandments I can't see how anyone who proclaims themselves Christian can support abortion in any except the most extreme cases.

But as an American, do you believe that your beliefs are somehow more important than someone else who does not think that?

I personally don't think I would ever choose to have an abortion (unless it were life or death, since I already have a child & would choose to stay here for him), but it is absolutely none of my business what the person 2 streets over chooses to do - that's between them, their family, and their beliefs.

It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

As a human I believe that my position on abortion as murder is based on a higher morality than someone who supports it possesses. Based on your logic I should have the right to kill anyone who gets in my way or causes me some inconvenience.

As for the bold part, no. If you can't see the moral inconsistency in that, well there's your problem. It's like being against the death penalty while being the one springing the trap door on a convicted person just because it is legal to hang someone. If you're against it you have a moral obligation to stand against it. A Christian should take the 10 Commandments to heart and one of those is Thou Shalt Not Kill.

(02-23-2021 02:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 02:04 PM)Oman Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

Green my friend, it's not possible. As a Christian you can support tolerance for choices that you might not choose for your self if it affects only that person.. perhaps alchohol, drugs, any number of things. But as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human.. that choice not only affects the woman but the child... it just doesn't fit.

thank you for your response, i appreciate discussion

I disagree, and where it seems to diverge is when people consider it to be "murder."
Some like previous posters consider it to be when there's a heartbeat, some consider it to be at conception, I personally consider it to be at viability. Every single person has a different opinion on this issue.

As a Christian I can support a woman's right to choose what happens with her body, even if not a single fiber of my being would be able to do it personally. I can also understand and respect the fact that the law extends past when I personally think is "too far." It is a personal choice between a woman, her doctor, and her partner/family.

If the rule is that as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human, then a whole lot of Christians need to revamp their opinion on the death penalty as well. Doesn't matter if that person is a wicked, evil being - you're supporting ending the life of a person who is already living & breathing outside of another person's body.

So, legally you could have aborted your own child at several points in your own pregnancy. But guess what, when nature was left alone to run its course you were given a precious gift. That certainly seems to me like viability was established long before your child exited the womb.

Your moral relativity and situational ethics must keep you comfortable. Seriously, how comfortable would you be having had an abortion and then being shown the life you have with your child now as what might have been?

(02-23-2021 02:36 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 02:31 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 02:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 02:04 PM)Oman Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 10:16 AM)tigergreen Wrote:  It is 100% possible to be Christian and not choose abortion for yourself, yet still support that in this country, a woman should have the right to make that decision.

Green my friend, it's not possible. As a Christian you can support tolerance for choices that you might not choose for your self if it affects only that person.. perhaps alchohol, drugs, any number of things. But as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human.. that choice not only affects the woman but the child... it just doesn't fit.

thank you for your response, i appreciate discussion

I disagree, and where it seems to diverge is when people consider it to be "murder."
Some like previous posters consider it to be when there's a heartbeat, some consider it to be at conception, I personally consider it to be at viability. Every single person has a different opinion on this issue.

As a Christian I can support a woman's right to choose what happens with her body, even if not a single fiber of my being would be able to do it personally. I can also understand and respect the fact that the law extends past when I personally think is "too far." It is a personal choice between a woman, her doctor, and her partner/family.

If the rule is that as a Christian you cannot support a "right" to end the life of another human, then a whole lot of Christians need to revamp their opinion on the death penalty as well. Doesn't matter if that person is a wicked, evil being - you're supporting ending the life of a person who is already living & breathing outside of another person's body.

Unborn children do not deserve capital punishment. At least compare abortion to killing someone in self-defense which also isn't comparable. It's a better argument.

No; if the argument made is that as a Christian you can't support the right to end a life, then it all comes into play - self-defense (which you could argue late term abortion in situations of the mother's life), death penalty, all of it. A life is a life is a life, and using Oman's statement, a Christian has to stand against ending anyone's life.

FTR, I don't believe in all this - there is nuance in all of it, but if the 'sanctity of life' and 'murder' is the issue being argued that you can't be a Christian & support, then at least be consistent.

If you change it to "an innocent life," then you're moving the goalposts and introducing the same nuance that you're speaking out against when you say that a woman in this country shouldn't be able to make a choice about what happens with her own body even if she doesn't share the same religious beliefs that you do.

BS, some issues are black and white and don't allow for nuance. There is no nuance to justify ending an innocent life. That's crazy talk.

(02-23-2021 03:41 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 03:30 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 03:24 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 03:20 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I still can't believe she would compare the most innocent of innocents to that of a convicted mass murderer on death row. What is wrong with you? That is so beyond the pale.

You can let go of your pearls at any time. I'm just illustrating the point that there is nuance in everything, including the abortion argument - otherwise in order to call yourself a Christian you must also must be against the death penalty, self-defense killings, etc.

When dealing with the genocide of some 50 million unborn babies, your darned right I will clutch the pearls of justice and righteousness. The blood of the most innocent of all is a huge deal to God and thus it is to me as well as a true believer.

God and the Bible are very clear that self defense and the death penalty are NOT sinful or unrighteous in God's eyes.

If you would actually read His Word you might have known that.

I'll take sanctimonious, posturing responses for $500, Alex.

You say sanctimonious, I say impassioned. You say posturing, I say principled stand.

(02-23-2021 03:52 PM)tigergreen Wrote:  

(02-23-2021 03:48 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I find the issue to be horrifically disgusting, and having to actually argue it with people who self identify as Christians is infuriating.

Again, then see yourself out. No one is keeping you here.

Speaking of sanctimonious...

(02-23-2021 04:49 PM)SMUstang Wrote:  Many people don't accept the Bible as the Word of God. They pick and choose what they want to believe. I don't know what they base their faith on. Jesus said "follow me". Granted that is hard to do at times. Our egos get in the way.

Democrats...

Man is not good enough, or smart enough, to get to Heaven on his own. Only faith in Jesus Christ will get you there.

To me the term “devout” means a commitment to your Christian faith. To me it’s non-denominational.