(02-26-2021 07:56 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  Hi. I'm an A-10 guy and have been monitoring this while awaiting authorization to join the convo.

1. No one is leaving the A-10 for a lesser league.

2. The "rumor" of the A-10 expanding and "adding FBS football" is an overblown way of saying that if the 4 or 5 C-USA teams did leave and join the A-10 and go independent in football because they'd have enough teams to play, those teams, plus UMass and/or Liberty and New Mexico State, could play each other every year under the A-10 name in order to negotiate bowl tie-ins and try to get some CFP table scrap payments, and BUNDLE TV RIGHTS.

Which sounds essentially the same as "the A-10 adding FBS," except the priority level. The A-10 would be a BASKETBALL LEAGUE, and FBS football would be the same as like, volleyball or baseball. Just another sport we play. We wouldn't be trying to become a "Power 6 Conference" -- because no one has the resources to be P5 level in both basketball and football.

3. That being said, a bunch of programs in C-USA are much much better at being good in both football and MBB than others. It's not quite "East vs West" because FAU/FIU aren't good. It's more like 5 East, UAB and La Tech." And the other seven schools are straight up killing C-USA basketball.

4. I've now seen ODU and Charlotte fans say "Oh, going Indy in football and joining the A-10 in hoops would be awesome!" And a Marshall fan visited the A-10 board I post on saying the same thing (telling me about this forum); and now there's a WKU fan saying it as well.

Which brings me to the big point: If FOUR fan bases/schools of the 5 Eastern C-USA teams good at basketball feel that way, your ADs should be talking to MTSU, UAB, and La Tech because

5. You don't need the A-10, just leave C-USA and form your own league.

Old Dominion, Charlotte, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, UAB, La Tech is seven teams.
That's enough that you'd get an automatic NCAA bid after ZERO or ONE YEAR (like the Big East/American split, or the MWC split).

Invite Liberty and Buffalo as full members; and UMass foot football only.

That is a very solid basketball league, because the win percentage of those programs skyrockets leaving the others behind, enabling your second place team to get an at-large bid.

Forming a new league from scratch is a big roadblock, hence why the A10 comes into play in these discussions

Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

(02-26-2021 08:03 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(02-26-2021 07:56 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  Hi. I'm an A-10 guy and have been monitoring this while awaiting authorization to join the convo.

1. No one is leaving the A-10 for a lesser league.

2. The "rumor" of the A-10 expanding and "adding FBS football" is an overblown way of saying that if the 4 or 5 C-USA teams did leave and join the A-10 and go independent in football because they'd have enough teams to play, those teams, plus UMass and/or Liberty and New Mexico State, could play each other every year under the A-10 name in order to negotiate bowl tie-ins and try to get some CFP table scrap payments, and BUNDLE TV RIGHTS.

Which sounds essentially the same as "the A-10 adding FBS," except the priority level. The A-10 would be a BASKETBALL LEAGUE, and FBS football would be the same as like, volleyball or baseball. Just another sport we play. We wouldn't be trying to become a "Power 6 Conference" -- because no one has the resources to be P5 level in both basketball and football.

3. That being said, a bunch of programs in C-USA are much much better at being good in both football and MBB than others. It's not quite "East vs West" because FAU/FIU aren't good. It's more like 5 East, UAB and La Tech." And the other seven schools are straight up killing C-USA basketball.

4. I've now seen ODU and Charlotte fans say "Oh, going Indy in football and joining the A-10 in hoops would be awesome!" And a Marshall fan visited the A-10 board I post on saying the same thing (telling me about this forum); and now there's a WKU fan saying it as well.

Which brings me to the big point: If FOUR fan bases/schools of the 5 Eastern C-USA teams good at basketball feel that way, your ADs should be talking to MTSU, UAB, and La Tech because

5. You don't need the A-10, just leave C-USA and form your own league.

Old Dominion, Charlotte, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, UAB, La Tech is seven teams.
That's enough that you'd get an automatic NCAA bid after ZERO or ONE YEAR (like the Big East/American split, or the MWC split).

Invite Liberty and Buffalo as full members; and UMass foot football only.

That is a very solid basketball league, because the win percentage of those programs skyrockets leaving the others behind, enabling your second place team to get an at-large bid.

Forming a new league from scratch is a big roadblock, hence why the A10 comes into play in these discussions

Also, it would take 8 full member A10 teams playing FBS football for them to sponsor it. Which would likely lead to an old BE type identity crises because you can't relegate FBS football to volleyball status for those that have it and if you have that many that have it then that would be a substantial block of schools. Which is why I doubt that happens. Taking in ODU in Charlotte or any other member that has FBS football could create a flight risk of those schools but there's no internal conflict.

(02-26-2021 08:15 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

We've got all types jumping on the bandwagon. Plenty of room for you Hyper, everyone looks good in blue.

(02-27-2021 10:38 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(02-26-2021 08:15 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

We've got all types jumping on the bandwagon. Plenty of room for you Hyper, everyone looks good in blue.

Lol

(02-27-2021 10:38 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(02-26-2021 08:15 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

We've got all types jumping on the bandwagon. Plenty of room for you Hyper, everyone looks good in blue.

I thought the Dukes' colors were purple and gold.

(02-26-2021 08:15 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

Went to an A-10 school, found this discussion from a topic on an A-10 board discussing ODU wanting out of C-USA for the A-10. While registering, I saw the C-USA team pulldown menu, so when it asked a favorite team, I just listed ODU.

(02-27-2021 10:37 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Also, it would take 8 full member A10 teams playing FBS football for them to sponsor it. Which would likely lead to an old BE type identity crises because you can't relegate FBS football to volleyball status for those that have it and if you have that many that have it then that would be a substantial block of schools. Which is why I doubt that happens. Taking in ODU in Charlotte or any other member that has FBS football could create a flight risk of those schools but there's no internal conflict.

The concept was that ODU was attempting a switch to the A-10 to get into a better basketball league, going independent in football and Charlotte goes with them (brokering the deal as a former A-10 member). Marshall and WKU fans have said
"What about us? We'd want that, too."

If those FOUR joined the A-10, and went Indy for FBS, they can play each other, and UMass, Liberty and New Mexico State every year to fill out a schedule.

Or they could call THAT EXACT THING "Atlantic 10 Football" with 5 full A-10 members and 2 affiliates. That does not meet the requirements for an official FBS conference, it's just "glorified independence." BUT you have a league office making the schedule so you don't have to negotiate 6 games for each season with the others. There's no NY6 access, but (a) that doesn't exist for independents either and (b) that hasn't come up for a C-USA member yet anyway. The A-10 can negotiate bowl tie-ins because they'll have someone who's 4-2 in conference every year. They can TRY to negotiate CFP hush money that C-USA gets when the next CFP deal is up (5 years left).

So if those four are willing to go FBS independent, playing Glorified Indy football in the A-10 is better on the football side of things; and of course, it's a BETTER BASKETBALL LEAGUE than C-USA;

And the Football TV rights can be bundled in with A-10 MBB/WBB rights, and those 4 schools are better off.


Now, if all that is true... you can create the exact same "glorified Indy" scenario in a new league if MTSU, UAB and La Tech decide they'd be better off with the 4 C-USA schools who want out than remaining in C-USA. You'd need an 8th full member to start the clock on becoming an official FBS conference. Liberty would definitely do it and Buffalo might as well (and UMass would love to play football with that league).

You'd get all the benefits I laid out above in the "A10 glorified FBS Indy" concept; only after 8 years, it would become a full FBS conference per NCAA rules -- which is NOT going to happen in the A-10.

The only question is "is a new league as good as the A-10 in basketball?" I hope the answer is no because I'm an A-10 fan. But it's a lot closer than current C-USA.

Those 7: .518 in FB, .577 in MBB since new C-USA alignment.
Other 7: .406 in FB, .456 in MBB since new C-USA alignment.

They'd go from a .516 overall C-USA to a .577 overall new league in hoops (plus what Buffalo or Liberty does, and they are programs pretty close to what those 7 are). Their computer ratings would be higher because there's no longer eight games vs "RPI/NET killer" in the league. That league could get an at-large pretty easily.

But even if it's a one-bid league, you're splitting that NCAA Tournament revenue 9 ways instead of 14 in C-USA; In the A-10, they give 75% of the NCAA money to the team that earned it, and split the 25% of each NCAA unit among the other teams.

So if an 18-team A-10 gets four NCAA units a year, but you don't make it, you're getting .056 NCAA shares a year.
In a one-bid C-USA with an even split, you'd get .071 NCAA shares a year.
In a one-bid New League of 9 teams, even split, you'd get .111 NCAA shares a year.

(02-26-2021 07:56 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  Hi. I'm an A-10 guy and have been monitoring this while awaiting authorization to join the convo.

1. No one is leaving the A-10 for a lesser league.

2. The "rumor" of the A-10 expanding and "adding FBS football" is an overblown way of saying that if the 4 or 5 C-USA teams did leave and join the A-10 and go independent in football because they'd have enough teams to play, those teams, plus UMass and/or Liberty and New Mexico State, could play each other every year under the A-10 name in order to negotiate bowl tie-ins and try to get some CFP table scrap payments, and BUNDLE TV RIGHTS.

Which sounds essentially the same as "the A-10 adding FBS," except the priority level. The A-10 would be a BASKETBALL LEAGUE, and FBS football would be the same as like, volleyball or baseball. Just another sport we play. We wouldn't be trying to become a "Power 6 Conference" -- because no one has the resources to be P5 level in both basketball and football.

3. That being said, a bunch of programs in C-USA are much much better at being good in both football and MBB than others. It's not quite "East vs West" because FAU/FIU aren't good. It's more like 5 East, UAB and La Tech." And the other seven schools are straight up killing C-USA basketball.

4. I've now seen ODU and Charlotte fans say "Oh, going Indy in football and joining the A-10 in hoops would be awesome!" And a Marshall fan visited the A-10 board I post on saying the same thing (telling me about this forum); and now there's a WKU fan saying it as well.

Which brings me to the big point: If FOUR fan bases/schools of the 5 Eastern C-USA teams good at basketball feel that way, your ADs should be talking to MTSU, UAB, and La Tech because

5. You don't need the A-10, just leave C-USA and form your own league.

Old Dominion, Charlotte, Marshall, Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee, UAB, La Tech is seven teams.
That's enough that you'd get an automatic NCAA bid after ZERO or ONE YEAR (like the Big East/American split, or the MWC split).

Invite Liberty and Buffalo as full members; and UMass foot football only.

That is a very solid basketball league, because the win percentage of those programs skyrockets leaving the others behind, enabling your second place team to get an at-large bid.

If you're an A10 guy you better hope those schools are not thinking like that. The play you just outlined has a big blind spot.

La Tech is not going to get that invite, bit too much of an outlier. However Liberty would jump all over that as an all sports member, you have no arrived at seven. Just geographically and sports competitive level the obvious move here is to take UMass as all sports, while picking off Dayton, SLU, and VCU as basketball only members. That's 8 football (9 if they make UConn football only in return for basketball scheduling) and 11 Olympics with the only outlier being UMass and the ease of a major airport hub to make the travel convient from UAB, St. Louis, Middle Tenn, and Dayton some of the teams farthest away. That football would be this years sunbelt level most every year with occasional dips and spurts where UAB, Marshall, and Liberty all have good years and all three may be ranked. That basketball would be nipping at the seven conferences that generally produce 98% of the at large berths. VCU, Dayton, W. Kentucky, UAB, SLU, UMass, and Liberty are quite a solid top half. With Marshall, ODU, Middle Tenn, and Charlotte all capable of filling in if those traditionally stronger programs fall off. That's also a three maybe four bid league most years. It means only WCC with BYU, St. Mary's, and Gonzaga and on occasion the MWC will be in position to get at large bids besides the p5, BE, and AAC. The new league would vacuum up any bids those seven drop.

You better hope they go the other way, the A10 has a couple teams leave and pick up two or three eastern CUSA teams who play independent and work it out with Liberty, UConn, UMass, and Army for football scheduling or the A10 is a dead league with four or five anchors and not much potential left.

One Marshall fan has said that. Marshall will not be going Indy. End of file.

Could former D1 conferences be reformed since they are still recognized in NCAA record books as a D1 conference. Yankee Conference might work.

Yankee Conference:
UConn
UMass
Delaware
James Madison
Dayton
Charlotte
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Stony Brook
Buffalo

Maine, New Hampshire, URI, Richmond, Villanova, William & Mary, Fordham, George Mason, VCU, Towson and Albany might upgrade their stadiums or add football to be part of the Yankee Conference. You do get the best from C-USA, A-10 and CAA to form the better football and men's basketball conference.

(02-27-2021 01:07 PM)JSchmack Wrote:  

(02-26-2021 08:15 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Just curious: what makes someone “an A-10 guy”? Just a general fan of the league? Got confused because of the ODU fandom.

Went to an A-10 school, found this discussion from a topic on an A-10 board discussing ODU wanting out of C-USA for the A-10. While registering, I saw the C-USA team pulldown menu, so when it asked a favorite team, I just listed ODU.

(02-27-2021 10:37 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  Also, it would take 8 full member A10 teams playing FBS football for them to sponsor it. Which would likely lead to an old BE type identity crises because you can't relegate FBS football to volleyball status for those that have it and if you have that many that have it then that would be a substantial block of schools. Which is why I doubt that happens. Taking in ODU in Charlotte or any other member that has FBS football could create a flight risk of those schools but there's no internal conflict.

The concept was that ODU was attempting a switch to the A-10 to get into a better basketball league, going independent in football and Charlotte goes with them (brokering the deal as a former A-10 member). Marshall and WKU fans have said
"What about us? We'd want that, too."

If those FOUR joined the A-10, and went Indy for FBS, they can play each other, and UMass, Liberty and New Mexico State every year to fill out a schedule.

Or they could call THAT EXACT THING "Atlantic 10 Football" with 5 full A-10 members and 2 affiliates. That does not meet the requirements for an official FBS conference, it's just "glorified independence." BUT you have a league office making the schedule so you don't have to negotiate 6 games for each season with the others. There's no NY6 access, but (a) that doesn't exist for independents either and (b) that hasn't come up for a C-USA member yet anyway. The A-10 can negotiate bowl tie-ins because they'll have someone who's 4-2 in conference every year. They can TRY to negotiate CFP hush money that C-USA gets when the next CFP deal is up (5 years left).

So if those four are willing to go FBS independent, playing Glorified Indy football in the A-10 is better on the football side of things; and of course, it's a BETTER BASKETBALL LEAGUE than C-USA;

And the Football TV rights can be bundled in with A-10 MBB/WBB rights, and those 4 schools are better off.


Now, if all that is true... you can create the exact same "glorified Indy" scenario in a new league if MTSU, UAB and La Tech decide they'd be better off with the 4 C-USA schools who want out than remaining in C-USA. You'd need an 8th full member to start the clock on becoming an official FBS conference. Liberty would definitely do it and Buffalo might as well (and UMass would love to play football with that league).

You'd get all the benefits I laid out above in the "A10 glorified FBS Indy" concept; only after 8 years, it would become a full FBS conference per NCAA rules -- which is NOT going to happen in the A-10.

The only question is "is a new league as good as the A-10 in basketball?" I hope the answer is no because I'm an A-10 fan. But it's a lot closer than current C-USA.

Those 7: .518 in FB, .577 in MBB since new C-USA alignment.
Other 7: .406 in FB, .456 in MBB since new C-USA alignment.

They'd go from a .516 overall C-USA to a .577 overall new league in hoops (plus what Buffalo or Liberty does, and they are programs pretty close to what those 7 are). Their computer ratings would be higher because there's no longer eight games vs "RPI/NET killer" in the league. That league could get an at-large pretty easily.

But even if it's a one-bid league, you're splitting that NCAA Tournament revenue 9 ways instead of 14 in C-USA; In the A-10, they give 75% of the NCAA money to the team that earned it, and split the 25% of each NCAA unit among the other teams.

So if an 18-team A-10 gets four NCAA units a year, but you don't make it, you're getting .056 NCAA shares a year.
In a one-bid C-USA with an even split, you'd get .071 NCAA shares a year.
In a one-bid New League of 9 teams, even split, you'd get .111 NCAA shares a year.

I posted this on ODUs board in reply to your comment but it seems to be the consensus on this board that the rule change regarding continuity following the MWC/WAC split mean that a conference that splits like that wouldn’t be granted an autobid without a waiver. If CUSA could split it likely happen.

https://csnbbs.com/thread-768543.html

(02-27-2021 01:12 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  One Marshall fan has said that. Marshall will not be going Indy. End of file.

Doesn't make sense to give up the CFP money and an easier path to a NYD bowl.

ODU/Charlotte if they think they can save on travel and they aren't very good in FB anyways I can sort of see it.

Welcome to the csnbbs board JSchmack!

JSchmack is an A10 guy unfortunately A10Chalk and redesign wounded the Basketball Forum, Atlantic 10 Conference board.

My take is conservative and would be shocked if the A10 puts a wrapper on football. They want no part of football. That said the A10 is proactive in conference realignment and did go to 15 teams before the Big East split. So there is presidency for the A10 going to 15 in case LaSalle flounders or the Big East does grab St. Louis or Dayton. ODU would be perfect footprint and brand wise and can see just ODU. The 49ers were in the A10 because they got booted out with St. Louis for not having football, so no real love there.

This is the year for ODU with no football revenue to do it and the question is will the A10 take them in on July 1st. The odds are at least 50% in my book.

That said JSchmack, big night in basketball tonight!

There is zero chance the A10 is adding 4 or more schools to add football and have an 18+ team basketball conference with a bunch of outliers. That would effectively kill the conference. They might add ODU and Charlotte, but WKU, Marshall, etc can go ahead and pour cold water on that fantasy. There is zero incentive to water down the revenue while ensure there are no TV games or travel savings. And this is no shot at WKU or Marshall, you just simply aren't in any of the A10 regions and have no rivals there.

(03-01-2021 11:45 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  My take is conservative and would be shocked if the A10 puts a wrapper on football. They want no part of football. That said the A10 is proactive in conference realignment and did go to 15 teams before the Big East split. So there is presidency for the A10 going to 15 in case LaSalle flounders or the Big East does grab St. Louis or Dayton. ODU would be perfect footprint and brand wise and can see just ODU. The 49ers were in the A10 because they got booted out with St. Louis for not having football, so no real love there.

This is the year for ODU with no football revenue to do it and the question is will the A10 take them in on July 1st. The odds are at least 50% in my book.

Yea, I don't see any scenario where football is at all palatable to the A10, nevermind desirable enough to balloon membership the way that would be necessary. As long as we're dealing in wild, conspiracy-theory-adjacent realignment scenarios, the 10-member CAA seems a much likelier conference to begin sponsoring football through a combination of current members and additions, but even that is wildly improbable. Some small number of additional independents joining the ranks is easily the most likely outcome, if there's any change at all.

As far as ODU/Charlotte to the A10.....I see it for the two schools on the outside looking in, but I don't really see a need for the A10 to expand. Sure, the geography works and they're better options than the usual MAAC/CAA names that get thrown around as A10 candidates, but......why? Seems like expansion purely for the sake of expansion.

(02-27-2021 01:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Could former D1 conferences be reformed since they are still recognized in NCAA record books as a D1 conference. Yankee Conference might work.

Yankee Conference:
UConn
UMass
Delaware
James Madison
Dayton
Charlotte
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Stony Brook
Buffalo

Maine, New Hampshire, URI, Richmond, Villanova, William & Mary, Fordham, George Mason, VCU, Towson and Albany might upgrade their stadiums or add football to be part of the Yankee Conference. You do get the best from C-USA, A-10 and CAA to form the better football and men's basketball conference.

Drink another one LOL. If anything happens to CUSA Marshall will stick with the remaining CUSA East members and form a new conference out of that or we will join the SunBelt. End of story... No MAC, No Independant, No A10, No New Conference with a bunch of 1-AA schools.

(03-01-2021 12:16 PM)Bogg Wrote:  

(03-01-2021 11:45 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  My take is conservative and would be shocked if the A10 puts a wrapper on football. They want no part of football. That said the A10 is proactive in conference realignment and did go to 15 teams before the Big East split. So there is presidency for the A10 going to 15 in case LaSalle flounders or the Big East does grab St. Louis or Dayton. ODU would be perfect footprint and brand wise and can see just ODU. The 49ers were in the A10 because they got booted out with St. Louis for not having football, so no real love there.

This is the year for ODU with no football revenue to do it and the question is will the A10 take them in on July 1st. The odds are at least 50% in my book.

Yea, I don't see any scenario where football is at all palatable to the A10, nevermind desirable enough to balloon membership the way that would be necessary. As long as we're dealing in wild, conspiracy-theory-adjacent realignment scenarios, the 10-member CAA seems a much likelier conference to begin sponsoring football through a combination of current members and additions, but even that is wildly improbable. Some small number of additional independents joining the ranks is easily the most likely outcome, if there's any change at all.

As far as ODU/Charlotte to the A10.....I see it for the two schools on the outside looking in, but I don't really see a need for the A10 to expand. Sure, the geography works and they're better options than the usual MAAC/CAA names that get thrown around as A10 candidates, but......why? Seems like expansion purely for the sake of expansion.

UMass will/is strongly supportive for ODU admission into the A10. Sure some of you get calls regarding donations and several months ago ask about ODU. There was no hesitation. "That would be really good". Have to think most of the former CAA Virginia Universities would also be strongly supportive: Richmond, VCU, and George Mason. Most other universities would go along and very few would be opposed initially. (IMHO) A10 back to 15 teams.

(02-27-2021 01:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Could former D1 conferences be reformed since they are still recognized in NCAA record books as a D1 conference. Yankee Conference might work.

Yankee Conference:
UConn
UMass
Delaware
James Madison
Dayton
Charlotte
Liberty
ODU
Marshall
Stony Brook
Buffalo

Is there any conceivable way Marshall could not finish in the Top 2 playing that football schedule?

Its like a banana republic conference where a strong man (Marshall) can control it. Any of these A10 FB scenarios fall under the same category.

No MAC school will go for something like that unless its the original proposed plan with NIU/Toledo/Ohio/Buffalo all in with full A10 memberships. MWC level TV money otherwise its a waste of time.

You['re assuming Buffalo is going to just throw away 2.5 million ESPN money its getting from the MAC for a group of eastern seaboard schools with no reputation in FB. Its got to be something that creates a clear 7th best FB conference behind the AAC type of thing, hence why they are looking at more MAC muscle.

If you were going to have G5 schools pivot to a non-FBS conference in order to try to rebrand it into an FBS league wouldn’t it make sense to try that with say CAA or the ASUN?

CAA has a program, JMU, that’s pretty much FBS ready and Delaware might be able to swing it in the right scenario. Sponsorship of FCS football would have to be taken over by America East.

The ASUN already had an FBS school and several aspirational schools like JSU, EKU, and Kenn St that could make actually getting the numbers to have a full FBS conference a little easier.

(03-01-2021 12:34 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Have to think most of the former CAA Virginia Universities would also be strongly supportive: Richmond, VCU, and George Mason. Most other universities would go along and very few would be opposed initially. (IMHO) A10 back to 15 teams.

I mean....maybe? I don't remember UMass and URI ever fighting like hell to get Northeastern an A10 spot. ODU and/or Charlotte would both be fine A10 candidates if there was a need to expand, but that's exactly it - I don't see any need to expand that's going to get Bonaventure and Duquesne and Dayton etc. on board.