(01-25-2021 08:22 AM)70shawk Wrote:  I think the Keatts/Siddle system really can only work well when you have a deep enough bench to run it...particularly when you have back to back/back to back games. You have to play the whole floor, and play it all game every game. Playing it any other way with the personnel we have is no bueno.

My hunch is that either Siddle plays the game as if the bench were deeper than it is (and hope that works), or we will see every bigger team take the ball into the paint with similar results .

Spot on my friend. We always refer to the system and how successful it was. While that is certainly true, We also had the greatest rebounder ever to step foot on our campus on those squads. That definitely enabled going smaller with much more success.

(01-25-2021 08:52 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:22 AM)70shawk Wrote:  I think the Keatts/Siddle system really can only work well when you have a deep enough bench to run it...particularly when you have back to back/back to back games. You have to play the whole floor, and play it all game every game. Playing it any other way with the personnel we have is no bueno.

My hunch is that either Siddle plays the game as if the bench were deeper than it is (and hope that works), or we will see every bigger team take the ball into the paint with similar results .

Spot on my friend. We always refer to the system and how successful it was. While that is certainly true, We also had the greatest rebounder ever to step foot on our campus on those squads. That definitely enabled going smaller with much more success.

I think you missed the point....

(01-25-2021 04:05 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:52 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:22 AM)70shawk Wrote:  I think the Keatts/Siddle system really can only work well when you have a deep enough bench to run it...particularly when you have back to back/back to back games. You have to play the whole floor, and play it all game every game. Playing it any other way with the personnel we have is no bueno.

My hunch is that either Siddle plays the game as if the bench were deeper than it is (and hope that works), or we will see every bigger team take the ball into the paint with similar results .

Spot on my friend. We always refer to the system and how successful it was. While that is certainly true, We also had the greatest rebounder ever to step foot on our campus on those squads. That definitely enabled going smaller with much more success.

I think you missed the point....

sure didn't.

(01-25-2021 04:37 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:05 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:52 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:22 AM)70shawk Wrote:  I think the Keatts/Siddle system really can only work well when you have a deep enough bench to run it...particularly when you have back to back/back to back games. You have to play the whole floor, and play it all game every game. Playing it any other way with the personnel we have is no bueno.

My hunch is that either Siddle plays the game as if the bench were deeper than it is (and hope that works), or we will see every bigger team take the ball into the paint with similar results .

Spot on my friend. We always refer to the system and how successful it was. While that is certainly true, We also had the greatest rebounder ever to step foot on our campus on those squads. That definitely enabled going smaller with much more success.

I think you missed the point....

sure didn't.

Sure did. He's talking about depth on the team. What are you talking about?

(01-25-2021 05:09 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:37 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:05 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:52 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:22 AM)70shawk Wrote:  I think the Keatts/Siddle system really can only work well when you have a deep enough bench to run it...particularly when you have back to back/back to back games. You have to play the whole floor, and play it all game every game. Playing it any other way with the personnel we have is no bueno.

My hunch is that either Siddle plays the game as if the bench were deeper than it is (and hope that works), or we will see every bigger team take the ball into the paint with similar results .

Spot on my friend. We always refer to the system and how successful it was. While that is certainly true, We also had the greatest rebounder ever to step foot on our campus on those squads. That definitely enabled going smaller with much more success.

I think you missed the point....

sure didn't.

Sure did. He's talking about depth on the team. What are you talking about?

I’m always talking about depth or lackthereof


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

(01-25-2021 05:09 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:37 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:05 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:52 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:22 AM)70shawk Wrote:  I think the Keatts/Siddle system really can only work well when you have a deep enough bench to run it...particularly when you have back to back/back to back games. You have to play the whole floor, and play it all game every game. Playing it any other way with the personnel we have is no bueno.

My hunch is that either Siddle plays the game as if the bench were deeper than it is (and hope that works), or we will see every bigger team take the ball into the paint with similar results .

Spot on my friend. We always refer to the system and how successful it was. While that is certainly true, We also had the greatest rebounder ever to step foot on our campus on those squads. That definitely enabled going smaller with much more success.

I think you missed the point....

sure didn't.

Sure did. He's talking about depth on the team. What are you talking about?

The Keatts/Siddle system obviously works (at least to a point) if you have the depth to run it, and run it the length of the court for the length of the game. If you don't have that depth, then Coach can't/won't fully commit to running the system. If you aren't fully running the system, then suddenly you are just a team with a bunch of guards/wings trying to play half court basketball with teams that have actual power forwards and post players.

Every team we will be playing saw how easily Towson and Delaware took the ball into the paint when we played man-to-man half court ball, and they are going to do the same thing until it doesn't work.

The greatest valid criticism against Keatts during his time at UNCW was his lack of adjustments when called for. When what he was doing ceased working (frequently because other coaches HAD made adjustments) he just kept on doing what mostly had been working up to that point. The UVA game in our last NCAA appearance is a painful case in point.

Siddle has been dealt a bad hand by the covid restrictions + injuries and other personnel issues. (As an aside, I don't fault him for the high risk/high reward Ian Steere experiment. If UNCW is going to ever get to, and stay, at a higher level some chances like that are most likely going to have to be taken along the way). But now that Coach Siddle has the team that he has with the depth that he has, it seems to me that he's going to have to make the interim adjustments that Keatts was unwilling to make.

(01-26-2021 07:29 AM)70shawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:09 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:37 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:05 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 08:52 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Spot on my friend. We always refer to the system and how successful it was. While that is certainly true, We also had the greatest rebounder ever to step foot on our campus on those squads. That definitely enabled going smaller with much more success.

I think you missed the point....

sure didn't.

Sure did. He's talking about depth on the team. What are you talking about?

The Keatts/Siddle system obviously works (at least to a point) if you have the depth to run it, and run it the length of the court for the length of the game. If you don't have that depth, then Coach can't/won't fully commit to running the system. If you aren't fully running the system, then suddenly you are just a team with a bunch of guards/wings trying to play half court basketball with teams that have actual power forwards and post players.

Every team we will be playing saw how easily Towson and Delaware took the ball into the paint when we played man-to-man half court ball, and they are going to do the same thing until it doesn't work.

The greatest valid criticism against Keatts during his time at UNCW was his lack of adjustments when called for. When what he was doing ceased working (frequently because other coaches HAD made adjustments) he just kept on doing what mostly had been working up to that point. The UVA game in our last NCAA appearance is a painful case in point.

Siddle has been dealt a bad hand by the covid restrictions + injuries and other personnel issues. (As an aside, I don't fault him for the high risk/high reward Ian Steere experiment. If UNCW is going to ever get to, and stay, at a higher level some chances like that are most likely going to have to be taken along the way). But now that Coach Siddle has the team that he has with the depth that he has, it seems to me that he's going to have to make the interim adjustments that Keatts was unwilling to make.

What adjustments can he realistically make though? Toss in some zone maybe? That has been my point the whole time, to play the system with no size, you are 1 injury away from being in serious trouble, and here we are. Hopefully Bowen can get us back to some useful minutes, we need him.

(01-26-2021 08:51 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  That has been my point the whole time, to play the system with no size, you are 1 injury away from being in serious trouble, and here we are. Hopefully Bowen can get us back to some useful minutes, we need him.

Makes you wonder what he was thinking during the recruiting cycle last spring and how he prioritized his in-home visits with recruits.

(01-26-2021 08:51 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-26-2021 07:29 AM)70shawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:09 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:37 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:05 PM)82hawk Wrote:  I think you missed the point....

sure didn't.

Sure did. He's talking about depth on the team. What are you talking about?

The Keatts/Siddle system obviously works (at least to a point) if you have the depth to run it, and run it the length of the court for the length of the game. If you don't have that depth, then Coach can't/won't fully commit to running the system. If you aren't fully running the system, then suddenly you are just a team with a bunch of guards/wings trying to play half court basketball with teams that have actual power forwards and post players.

Every team we will be playing saw how easily Towson and Delaware took the ball into the paint when we played man-to-man half court ball, and they are going to do the same thing until it doesn't work.

The greatest valid criticism against Keatts during his time at UNCW was his lack of adjustments when called for. When what he was doing ceased working (frequently because other coaches HAD made adjustments) he just kept on doing what mostly had been working up to that point. The UVA game in our last NCAA appearance is a painful case in point.

Siddle has been dealt a bad hand by the covid restrictions + injuries and other personnel issues. (As an aside, I don't fault him for the high risk/high reward Ian Steere experiment. If UNCW is going to ever get to, and stay, at a higher level some chances like that are most likely going to have to be taken along the way). But now that Coach Siddle has the team that he has with the depth that he has, it seems to me that he's going to have to make the interim adjustments that Keatts was unwilling to make.

What adjustments can he realistically make though? Toss in some zone maybe? That has been my point the whole time, to play the system with no size, you are 1 injury away from being in serious trouble, and here we are. Hopefully Bowen can get us back to some useful minutes, we need him.

Well, for starters, yes - some zone couldn't have hurt. But Coach Siddle said that he's not comfortable with the 2-3 Zone he has in his package...so I'm not sure what he plans to do to stop the points in the paint, because his man to man sure isn't getting it done so far. Truth be told, under his system there seems to be a recognition that the other team is going to score their points, but that our defense is going to cause turnovers that lead to even more points than they get.

A lot of our offense is designed around scoring a lot of its points off of those turnovers. So maybe gambling more on playing the designed full court defense, rather than trying to 'save legs' or preemptively worrying about players getting into foul trouble. Tough to do when you have back-to-back games. Maybe figure out ways to get minutes out of Jenkins...figure out a somewhat different role for Dodd.


But saving 'gas in the tank' during the first game in order to be ready for the second game might mean that you end up losing both, rather than winning the 1st game and THEN worrying about game 2.

(01-26-2021 10:32 AM)70shawk Wrote:  

(01-26-2021 08:51 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-26-2021 07:29 AM)70shawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 05:09 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-25-2021 04:37 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  sure didn't.

Sure did. He's talking about depth on the team. What are you talking about?

The Keatts/Siddle system obviously works (at least to a point) if you have the depth to run it, and run it the length of the court for the length of the game. If you don't have that depth, then Coach can't/won't fully commit to running the system. If you aren't fully running the system, then suddenly you are just a team with a bunch of guards/wings trying to play half court basketball with teams that have actual power forwards and post players.

Every team we will be playing saw how easily Towson and Delaware took the ball into the paint when we played man-to-man half court ball, and they are going to do the same thing until it doesn't work.

The greatest valid criticism against Keatts during his time at UNCW was his lack of adjustments when called for. When what he was doing ceased working (frequently because other coaches HAD made adjustments) he just kept on doing what mostly had been working up to that point. The UVA game in our last NCAA appearance is a painful case in point.

Siddle has been dealt a bad hand by the covid restrictions + injuries and other personnel issues. (As an aside, I don't fault him for the high risk/high reward Ian Steere experiment. If UNCW is going to ever get to, and stay, at a higher level some chances like that are most likely going to have to be taken along the way). But now that Coach Siddle has the team that he has with the depth that he has, it seems to me that he's going to have to make the interim adjustments that Keatts was unwilling to make.

What adjustments can he realistically make though? Toss in some zone maybe? That has been my point the whole time, to play the system with no size, you are 1 injury away from being in serious trouble, and here we are. Hopefully Bowen can get us back to some useful minutes, we need him.

Well, for starters, yes - some zone couldn't have hurt. But Coach Siddle said that he's not comfortable with the 2-3 Zone he has in his package...so I'm not sure what he plans to do to stop the points in the paint, because his man to man sure isn't getting it done so far. Truth be told, under his system there seems to be a recognition that the other team is going to score their points, but that our defense is going to cause turnovers that lead to even more points than they get.

A lot of our offense is designed around scoring a lot of its points off of those turnovers. So maybe gambling more on playing the designed full court defense, rather than trying to 'save legs' or preemptively worrying about players getting into foul trouble. Tough to do when you have back-to-back games. Maybe figure out ways to get minutes out of Jenkins...figure out a somewhat different role for Dodd.


But saving 'gas in the tank' during the first game in order to be ready for the second game might mean that you end up losing both, rather than winning the 1st game and THEN worrying about game 2.

I completely agree the saving legs part is counterproductive. I don't buy the " not comfortable " with the zone. If that's something you have recognized can help in the situation you are in, get comfortable with it, practice it. How much worse could it be than giving up layups in man to man?

I think a huge contributing factor is that this team just isn't built for back to backs all year long. Now that our bench is suddenly significantly shorter, like everyone has discussed, it really exacerbates that problem for us.

Lots of good discussion here, and I agree with 70s. Hopefully we some sort of adjustment, even a small one to try and mitigate this. Otherwise teams are going to look at that Towson game film and it's definite key to beating us.

Siddle is facing the same problem every coach does when they come to a program with an entirely different style than the previous coach. He is trying to change the culture and trying to change the style of play. Winning is secondary to both of those objectives.

We will be a team that values deflections, creating turnovers, getting steals and stopping the three ball. That is EXACTLY what Keatts focused on. And you cannot do those things in a zone. When our seniors graduate, the remaining players will be the core of this new system and will help the new players next year as well. So we are not going to go zone for short term gains and have a team that has to re learn the system Siddle will have.

When Siddle brought in Steere he did not intend for, or expect him to fail. Quite the opposite. But the real question is Dodd. I just rewatched the Delaware games and he is a non factor in games for the most part. He's hesitant and unsure scoring in the paint. He is also terrible at getting position and boxing out to get rebounds or defending. He doesn't fight for position and from what I saw, doesn't really try. I just don't see that aggressiveness to be a factor on the court, and you can't teach that. I'm afraid he never had to in high school because he was a man against boys, and never developed those natural instincts. Pridgen is a better overall player in the paint than Dodd and that just shouldn't be. Bowen is as well, but he's hurt. Unless Dodd makes vast improvements between now and next year, he's going to be recruited over.

As far as depth, i'm not sure how Siddle can overcome that. Phillips not playing at all was a huge blow to our depth. Steere left, Carr never hit the floor and now Bowen hasn't played in five games. Add to that the inability of Dodd to be effective on the court, and we're down four players on the bench and a fifth player who barely plays at all.

I'm really not putting much emphasis on this year. On paper we looked like we could be good, but there was no way to predict this level of depletion of our bench. What I do know is that I like what I see on the court. The hustle, the style of play, the pressure when we can, the deflections, the steals, the turnovers we create. This is exaclty what we were promised and there is nothing I see that gives me concern for the future.

(01-27-2021 07:33 AM)82hawk Wrote:  . This is exaclty what we were promised and there is nothing I see that gives me concern for the future.

Not having any depth at the size positions, that gives me concern for the future as it should you. And a coaches job is to win. Mixing in a bit of Zone to potentially help win some games now doesn't have to be at the detriment of the future. A coaches job is to adjust when something isn't working. With the hand he's been dealt, partially inherited, partially injuries and partially do to his multiple failed recruits, he needs to adjust. This team NOW has shown it can win and compete with the best teams in the league. A few small adjustments could turn some of those L's into W's!

You constantly got on the last regime for not adjusting, now it's suddenly ok? At least i'm consistent.

(01-27-2021 08:40 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-27-2021 07:33 AM)82hawk Wrote:  . This is exaclty what we were promised and there is nothing I see that gives me concern for the future.

Not having any depth at the size positions, that gives me concern for the future as it should you. And a coaches job is to win. Mixing in a bit of Zone to potentially help win some games now doesn't have to be at the detriment of the future. A coaches job is to adjust when something isn't working. With the hand he's been dealt, partially inherited, partially injuries and partially do to his multiple failed recruits, he needs to adjust. This team NOW has shown it can win and compete with the best teams in the league. A few small adjustments could turn some of those L's into W's!

You constantly got on the last regime for not adjusting, now it's suddenly ok? At least i'm consistent.

I had a problem with adjustments when a coach had his system, his players, consistently lost, wasn't even close, and made no adjustements to win. We're not even close to that. I'm also consistent in giving a coach the first year to work out the kinks and instill a system he thinks will win long term. I did it for McGrath and i'll do it for Siddle. Can you say that?

(01-27-2021 09:05 AM)82hawk Wrote:  

(01-27-2021 08:40 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-27-2021 07:33 AM)82hawk Wrote:  . This is exaclty what we were promised and there is nothing I see that gives me concern for the future.

Not having any depth at the size positions, that gives me concern for the future as it should you. And a coaches job is to win. Mixing in a bit of Zone to potentially help win some games now doesn't have to be at the detriment of the future. A coaches job is to adjust when something isn't working. With the hand he's been dealt, partially inherited, partially injuries and partially do to his multiple failed recruits, he needs to adjust. This team NOW has shown it can win and compete with the best teams in the league. A few small adjustments could turn some of those L's into W's!

You constantly got on the last regime for not adjusting, now it's suddenly ok? At least i'm consistent.

I had a problem with adjustments when a coach had his system, his players, consistently lost, wasn't even close, and made no adjustements to win. We're not even close to that. I'm also consistent in giving a coach the first year to work out the kinks and instill a system he thinks will win long term. I did it for McGrath and i'll do it for Siddle. Can you say that?

Look, i still think Siddle is the guy long term. But, i don't have to be all in, or all out. I don't think making minor adjustments to potentially win now and deal with the hand he currently has is to the detriment of the long term vision. When you are a coach it's your job to adjust when something isn't working and it's your job to win. Right now, he's doing neither of those things.

(01-27-2021 09:14 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Look, i still think Siddle is the guy long term. But, i don't have to be all in, or all out. I don't think making minor adjustments to potentially win now and deal with the hand he currently has is to the detriment of the long term vision. When you are a coach it's your job to adjust when something isn't working and it's your job to win. Right now, he's doing neither of those things.

It's not about being all in or all out, but complaining about the roster composition EVERY game is tiring. This is year one and, as 82 said, Siddle is trying to change the culture. There were some misses on recruiting last year. Without condemning Steere (because I don't the situation) there were some flags concerning his ability to fit within a D1 team. That is a fair criticism, but it is not as if Siddle had pick of the litter. He targeted guys that he had relationships with prior to being hired. His first three commitments were all from North Carolina and each were done in under unique circumstances. Give the man and the team time. We've played 13 games and we haven't had a full healthy, roster yet. Practiced was suspended and limited in January. Things are different this year and we're seeing experienced teams with established systems rise to top. That isn't where we are and is mind-numbing to point that out game after game.

(01-27-2021 09:38 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-27-2021 09:14 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Look, i still think Siddle is the guy long term. But, i don't have to be all in, or all out. I don't think making minor adjustments to potentially win now and deal with the hand he currently has is to the detriment of the long term vision. When you are a coach it's your job to adjust when something isn't working and it's your job to win. Right now, he's doing neither of those things.

That isn't where we are .

But yet we can run with top teams without issue. I beat the dead horse because many here said "we don't need size" etc. , We do. Look, we all want the same thing, to win. And when I see easy adjustments that can be made to put us in a better spot to win and we don't make them, it's frustrating. Probably as frustrated as you get reading me beat a dead horse. We have enough talent to play with anyone in the league IMO. And with some adjustments to mask our lack of big guy depth, there is no reason we couldn't finish top 4. Limited sample size at JMU but new coach, new system, 2-1 with a win at Towson and a split with the number 1 team in conference.

(01-27-2021 09:56 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(01-27-2021 09:38 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  

(01-27-2021 09:14 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Look, i still think Siddle is the guy long term. But, i don't have to be all in, or all out. I don't think making minor adjustments to potentially win now and deal with the hand he currently has is to the detriment of the long term vision. When you are a coach it's your job to adjust when something isn't working and it's your job to win. Right now, he's doing neither of those things.

That isn't where we are .

But yet we can run with top teams without issue. I beat the dead horse because many here said "we don't need size" etc. , We do. Look, we all want the same thing, to win. And when I see easy adjustments that can be made to put us in a better spot to win and we don't make them, it's frustrating. Probably as frustrated as you get reading me beat a dead horse. We have enough talent to play with anyone in the league IMO. And with some adjustments to mask our lack of big guy depth, there is no reason we couldn't finish top 4.

We indeed want the same thing. Embiid made it cliche, but I believe that we have to trust the process. When I look at this team, I see an upward trajectory, and year 1 that is what I'm looking for. With contributions from Phillips and Steere, I think we had top 4 potential, but we're not that team without those guys.

Keatts turned things around immediately. He got a little lucky (or he's an excellent talent evaluator) with some guys (namely Flemmings). But that launch from worst to first is the exception. The frustration/concern with Keatts' system not being built for March is overblown IMO, and I see that being your root cause for concern regarding size. As a fanbase, we've seen what it takes to build a program. We don't earn a 9 seed in 2006 without an NIT in '98, or Hare's dunk '02. George Mason makes a Final Four run in 2006 on the foundation of George Evans.

The fact that we've endured Moss, Buzz and McGrath should give us perspective and patience. Success is built on many small steps, not a giant leap. I don't understand why you're so eager to draw a conclusion after 13 games. I'm expecting growing pains the first 2 seasons and a reward seasons 3-5.

I'm not sure anybody meant we don't need size. I think they were ok with going without size this first year. Siddle, with his limited time and abilities with this year, did offer some bigs. Steere was the only one he was able to secure. That bust only hurts us this year. I'd prefer that over picking up just any big and having him sit the bench for two to four years, wasting a scholarship. Siddle has offered other bigs. Hopefully, with his recruiting talents, he can land one or two bigs that can contribute and be a force next year. This being his first year, and with injuries and covid, he is still having to teach his system to the guys that are playing now. We may lose games this year due to that, but it will be a big step in the long run when he brings new guys in next year. The present guys will already be comfortable with it and will be able to help acclimate the new players into the system next year. And yes, it is a process. I'm hoping it will pay off in the long run to instill a program that will be a consistent mid major force.

Patience is not my best trait. Sorry but when i see them get so close, i can't buy into the just tossing it away for next season. While i agree that next season or year after will be the true measuring stick, that doesn't mean we need to toss that away now. This team can compete, has competed, and with a few small adjustments some of those L's could turn into W's. That is where i differ in opinion.