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(12-16-2020 06:51 PM)RoanokeMonarch Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 05:31 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  FWIW- we actually have an outstanding class coming in next year.

Assuming Trice does leave, he will be replaced by Stephan Morris. We also have 3 guards coming in, highlighted by Jadin Johnson, who is one of the best recruits we've had over the past decade.

Heck Giles, we have heard ‘outstanding class’ coming in next year so many times, it has gotten to be a total joke. When the year arrives, they sit on the bench and never see the court. Then they transfer. Over and over, like a broken record. So, do tell, why would next year’s class be any better/different? To me, same coaching staff, same poor results....

Same old boring song year after year after year.

Every class is amazing and outstanding until they take the court and somehow underperform.

Enough

Enough!!!

(12-16-2020 09:20 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 08:30 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 02:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 02:08 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 12:49 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  It was certainly ugly vs. VCU and all of last year. There is zero doubt about that.

That's part of it. But most of us could handle a little downturn if we were rebuilding. However, this is a veteran team. What are we going to look like when we lose Curry and Trice next year? What star players do we have that we can develop and take their places?

That's why we need a change. Not just because of last year and this year, but because we don't have much hope for next year either.

I don't want to pile on Green, but what in the world has happened to him? He was so good as a sophomore, arguably the best player on the team down the stretch heading into the NCAAs. It's like he totally forgot how to play.

I don't think this team ends up being bad. I think I predicted them around the 100 mark, which seems about right. VCU was certainly a heartbreaker but we have more games to judge where we are. We've won the games we should have and got blown out in the 2 games we should have lostgot blown out in the 2 games we should have lost. If this year ends up being like last year, I don't think anyone will want Jones back. I don't see that being the case but time will tell.

Hopefully O'Connel and Shanu develop this year. We'll also have another developmental year from Reece, Ezikpe, Oliver, and Hunter and 3 guards coming in. Im not saying next year will be great or not but the cupboard is not bare for Jones or any other potential coach. I don't see why next year will be a significantly worse team.

I wish I knew about Green. Doesn't seem like he can regain his confidence. Im not sure if its the yips or not but whatever he's doing with his feet on a his jumpshots (i don't remember that in his fresh/soph year but maybe it was there) doesn't seem to be working.

You lost me at "got blown out in the 2 games we should have lost".

If ODU was where they should be with a veteran team like this, they should be a threat to win most any game, especially so against a rebuilding Maryland team and a rebuilding VCU team.

The time for making excuses or giving hopeful responses that maybe this player or that player will quickly improve has past. Players that sit the bench don't tend to improve. Players that didn't improve during the off season don't tend to improve during the season.

I agree with your statement that next season won't necessarily be worse. By the same token, this season won't necessarily be worse than last season either. Unfortunately, in both cases those statements aren't necessarily saying very much for the state of the teams.

Agree. A veteran ODU team should be able to compete well with a down Maryland squad (and maybe win), and should certainly be expected to beat a VCU team full of freshman. Frankly, its embarrassing that we were expected to lose by 8 according to Vegas. No respect. And then to actually still get beat way worse.... obviously, Im still not over it.

We've gone down this road but Maryland is a top 50 team. Down for them is a lot different that down for a non basketball school. If you took our history and lined up with Maryland, how many years have we had a better team? Im not understanding this expecting to win vs. them.

VCU is not a team full of freshman, fwiw. VCU has certainly passed us as they are a basketball only school in a better conference with better resources. That sucks but its just the fact of the matter. Having said that, that was still a piss poor performance by us that no one should be happy about. Of course, people are going to be angry about that game and rightfully so.

As for the question about recruiting by someone else. That seems to be a go to criticism but I don't think many people come on here and hype recruiting classes every year. Maybe some individual players. This past one was not that great as the went with a developmental big that people on here cried for. O'Connell is a solid get but he's certainly no game changer. The 2018 class was a great one but one of those players has now torn an ACL and an achilles so we aren't going to see him this year. Ezikpe and Reece are both playing well.

This is not a bad team despite a poor performance against VCU. We are 4 games into the season. I don't think we will be anywhere near as bad as last year but we have 20 more games to see if that is true or not.

(12-17-2020 10:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 09:20 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 08:30 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 02:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 02:08 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  That's part of it. But most of us could handle a little downturn if we were rebuilding. However, this is a veteran team. What are we going to look like when we lose Curry and Trice next year? What star players do we have that we can develop and take their places?

That's why we need a change. Not just because of last year and this year, but because we don't have much hope for next year either.

I don't want to pile on Green, but what in the world has happened to him? He was so good as a sophomore, arguably the best player on the team down the stretch heading into the NCAAs. It's like he totally forgot how to play.

I don't think this team ends up being bad. I think I predicted them around the 100 mark, which seems about right. VCU was certainly a heartbreaker but we have more games to judge where we are. We've won the games we should have and got blown out in the 2 games we should have lostgot blown out in the 2 games we should have lost. If this year ends up being like last year, I don't think anyone will want Jones back. I don't see that being the case but time will tell.

Hopefully O'Connel and Shanu develop this year. We'll also have another developmental year from Reece, Ezikpe, Oliver, and Hunter and 3 guards coming in. Im not saying next year will be great or not but the cupboard is not bare for Jones or any other potential coach. I don't see why next year will be a significantly worse team.

I wish I knew about Green. Doesn't seem like he can regain his confidence. Im not sure if its the yips or not but whatever he's doing with his feet on a his jumpshots (i don't remember that in his fresh/soph year but maybe it was there) doesn't seem to be working.

You lost me at "got blown out in the 2 games we should have lost".

If ODU was where they should be with a veteran team like this, they should be a threat to win most any game, especially so against a rebuilding Maryland team and a rebuilding VCU team.

The time for making excuses or giving hopeful responses that maybe this player or that player will quickly improve has past. Players that sit the bench don't tend to improve. Players that didn't improve during the off season don't tend to improve during the season.

I agree with your statement that next season won't necessarily be worse. By the same token, this season won't necessarily be worse than last season either. Unfortunately, in both cases those statements aren't necessarily saying very much for the state of the teams.

Agree. A veteran ODU team should be able to compete well with a down Maryland squad (and maybe win), and should certainly be expected to beat a VCU team full of freshman. Frankly, its embarrassing that we were expected to lose by 8 according to Vegas. No respect. And then to actually still get beat way worse.... obviously, Im still not over it.

We've gone down this road but Maryland is a top 50 team. Down for them is a lot different that down for a non basketball school. If you took our history and lined up with Maryland, how many years have we had a better team? Im not understanding this expecting to win vs. them.

VCU is not a team full of freshman, fwiw. VCU has certainly passed us as they are a basketball only school in a better conference with better resources. That sucks but its just the fact of the matter. Having said that, that was still a piss poor performance by us that no one should be happy about. Of course, people are going to be angry about that game and rightfully so.

As for the question about recruiting by someone else. That seems to be a go to criticism but I don't think many people come on here and hype recruiting classes every year. Maybe some individual players. This past one was not that great as the went with a developmental big that people on here cried for. O'Connell is a solid get but he's certainly no game changer. The 2018 class was a great one but one of those players has now torn an ACL and an achilles so we aren't going to see him this year. Ezikpe and Reece are both playing well.

This is not a bad team despite a poor performance against VCU. We are 4 games into the season. I don't think we will be anywhere near as bad as last year but we have 20 more games to see if that is true or not.

A). The statements you replied to were, "a threat to win" and "able to compete well" regarding rebuilding Maryland and VCU teams. ODU was not a threat to win, nor did they compete well - they should have been able to do both. Your statement, "I'm not understanding this EXPECTING to win vs them" is not what either of us stated. What we WERE expecting was for ODU to be competitive and have a CHANCE to win - which wasn't even close to what happened. Your response was to something that wasn't said, and therefore off target.

B). You are correct that people for years have stated the need to bring in a Freshman center to develop him. You are correct that Jeff finally brought one in. What you left out to make your point sound better is that we also stated that since Jeff has not had a flow of centers coming along from year to year, he had to bring in an experienced transfer center - which he didn't do. That is what many of us have actually said on the subject. Jeff did bring in Trice (6'-7") which is better than nothing, but he isn't any more of a center than Carver was. I don't know if you caught it, but in one of the post game radio interviews this year Jeff made an off the cuff comment about being undersized and having to use two guys that were "maybe 6'-7" in the middle. Those were his own words - our coach. I immediately screamed out loud, "That's your own fault for not recruiting bigger players to play center for you". Different season, same coach, same story.

Yes, I would expect to be in the game against any top 50 team regardless of conference. Kind of like we used to compete (and in some cases win) against Butler, Dayton, Xavier, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Georgetown, Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan State, TCU, DePaul, Colorado, Notre Dame, Baylor... etc. Very rarely outside of the Mike Anderson teams did we get blown out in these games where we had an opportunity to make a statement. JJ did beat Syracuse a few years ago and competed against a good Louisville team way back when (Trey Freeman team?), but aside from that it is almost always a blowout and nobody thinks there is ever any chance.

And I'm not even counting the midmajor tournament and bubble teams we played in conference, or bracketbusters that were better than Maryland and VCU are this year.

(12-17-2020 10:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 09:20 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 08:30 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 02:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 02:08 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  That's part of it. But most of us could handle a little downturn if we were rebuilding. However, this is a veteran team. What are we going to look like when we lose Curry and Trice next year? What star players do we have that we can develop and take their places?

That's why we need a change. Not just because of last year and this year, but because we don't have much hope for next year either.

I don't want to pile on Green, but what in the world has happened to him? He was so good as a sophomore, arguably the best player on the team down the stretch heading into the NCAAs. It's like he totally forgot how to play.

I don't think this team ends up being bad. I think I predicted them around the 100 mark, which seems about right. VCU was certainly a heartbreaker but we have more games to judge where we are. We've won the games we should have and got blown out in the 2 games we should have lostgot blown out in the 2 games we should have lost. If this year ends up being like last year, I don't think anyone will want Jones back. I don't see that being the case but time will tell.

Hopefully O'Connel and Shanu develop this year. We'll also have another developmental year from Reece, Ezikpe, Oliver, and Hunter and 3 guards coming in. Im not saying next year will be great or not but the cupboard is not bare for Jones or any other potential coach. I don't see why next year will be a significantly worse team.

I wish I knew about Green. Doesn't seem like he can regain his confidence. Im not sure if its the yips or not but whatever he's doing with his feet on a his jumpshots (i don't remember that in his fresh/soph year but maybe it was there) doesn't seem to be working.

You lost me at "got blown out in the 2 games we should have lost".

If ODU was where they should be with a veteran team like this, they should be a threat to win most any game, especially so against a rebuilding Maryland team and a rebuilding VCU team.

The time for making excuses or giving hopeful responses that maybe this player or that player will quickly improve has past. Players that sit the bench don't tend to improve. Players that didn't improve during the off season don't tend to improve during the season.

I agree with your statement that next season won't necessarily be worse. By the same token, this season won't necessarily be worse than last season either. Unfortunately, in both cases those statements aren't necessarily saying very much for the state of the teams.

Agree. A veteran ODU team should be able to compete well with a down Maryland squad (and maybe win), and should certainly be expected to beat a VCU team full of freshman. Frankly, its embarrassing that we were expected to lose by 8 according to Vegas. No respect. And then to actually still get beat way worse.... obviously, Im still not over it.

We've gone down this road but Maryland is a top 50 team. Down for them is a lot different that down for a non basketball school. If you took our history and lined up with Maryland, how many years have we had a better team? Im not understanding this expecting to win vs. them.

VCU is not a team full of freshman, fwiw. VCU has certainly passed us as they are a basketball only school in a better conference with better resources. That sucks but its just the fact of the matter. Having said that, that was still a piss poor performance by us that no one should be happy about. Of course, people are going to be angry about that game and rightfully so.

As for the question about recruiting by someone else. That seems to be a go to criticism but I don't think many people come on here and hype recruiting classes every year. Maybe some individual players. This past one was not that great as the went with a developmental big that people on here cried for. O'Connell is a solid get but he's certainly no game changer. The 2018 class was a great one but one of those players has now torn an ACL and an achilles so we aren't going to see him this year. Ezikpe and Reece are both playing well.

This is not a bad team despite a poor performance against VCU. We are 4 games into the season. I don't think we will be anywhere near as bad as last year but we have 20 more games to see if that is true or not.

Stop downgrading the value of our program every year to fit your narrative that everything is fine.

(12-17-2020 11:53 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 10:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 09:20 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 08:30 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 02:17 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I don't think this team ends up being bad. I think I predicted them around the 100 mark, which seems about right. VCU was certainly a heartbreaker but we have more games to judge where we are. We've won the games we should have and got blown out in the 2 games we should have lostgot blown out in the 2 games we should have lost. If this year ends up being like last year, I don't think anyone will want Jones back. I don't see that being the case but time will tell.

Hopefully O'Connel and Shanu develop this year. We'll also have another developmental year from Reece, Ezikpe, Oliver, and Hunter and 3 guards coming in. Im not saying next year will be great or not but the cupboard is not bare for Jones or any other potential coach. I don't see why next year will be a significantly worse team.

I wish I knew about Green. Doesn't seem like he can regain his confidence. Im not sure if its the yips or not but whatever he's doing with his feet on a his jumpshots (i don't remember that in his fresh/soph year but maybe it was there) doesn't seem to be working.

You lost me at "got blown out in the 2 games we should have lost".

If ODU was where they should be with a veteran team like this, they should be a threat to win most any game, especially so against a rebuilding Maryland team and a rebuilding VCU team.

The time for making excuses or giving hopeful responses that maybe this player or that player will quickly improve has past. Players that sit the bench don't tend to improve. Players that didn't improve during the off season don't tend to improve during the season.

I agree with your statement that next season won't necessarily be worse. By the same token, this season won't necessarily be worse than last season either. Unfortunately, in both cases those statements aren't necessarily saying very much for the state of the teams.

Agree. A veteran ODU team should be able to compete well with a down Maryland squad (and maybe win), and should certainly be expected to beat a VCU team full of freshman. Frankly, its embarrassing that we were expected to lose by 8 according to Vegas. No respect. And then to actually still get beat way worse.... obviously, Im still not over it.

We've gone down this road but Maryland is a top 50 team. Down for them is a lot different that down for a non basketball school. If you took our history and lined up with Maryland, how many years have we had a better team? Im not understanding this expecting to win vs. them.

VCU is not a team full of freshman, fwiw. VCU has certainly passed us as they are a basketball only school in a better conference with better resources. That sucks but its just the fact of the matter. Having said that, that was still a piss poor performance by us that no one should be happy about. Of course, people are going to be angry about that game and rightfully so.

As for the question about recruiting by someone else. That seems to be a go to criticism but I don't think many people come on here and hype recruiting classes every year. Maybe some individual players. This past one was not that great as the went with a developmental big that people on here cried for. O'Connell is a solid get but he's certainly no game changer. The 2018 class was a great one but one of those players has now torn an ACL and an achilles so we aren't going to see him this year. Ezikpe and Reece are both playing well.

This is not a bad team despite a poor performance against VCU. We are 4 games into the season. I don't think we will be anywhere near as bad as last year but we have 20 more games to see if that is true or not.

Stop downgrading the value of our program every year to fit your narrative that everything is fine.

I point out facts about our program and where we have stood across time. That is not upgrading or downgrading. If people want to believe our history is better than it is, sobeit.

I don't have the narrative that everything is fine. I have shown where we stand vs. were our teams have been historically. No issues with people wanting us to be a top 50 program.....don't we all? But, some people actually believe that we once were (and more than just an individual season).

(12-17-2020 12:41 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 11:53 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 10:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 09:20 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 08:30 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  You lost me at "got blown out in the 2 games we should have lost".

If ODU was where they should be with a veteran team like this, they should be a threat to win most any game, especially so against a rebuilding Maryland team and a rebuilding VCU team.

The time for making excuses or giving hopeful responses that maybe this player or that player will quickly improve has past. Players that sit the bench don't tend to improve. Players that didn't improve during the off season don't tend to improve during the season.

I agree with your statement that next season won't necessarily be worse. By the same token, this season won't necessarily be worse than last season either. Unfortunately, in both cases those statements aren't necessarily saying very much for the state of the teams.

Agree. A veteran ODU team should be able to compete well with a down Maryland squad (and maybe win), and should certainly be expected to beat a VCU team full of freshman. Frankly, its embarrassing that we were expected to lose by 8 according to Vegas. No respect. And then to actually still get beat way worse.... obviously, Im still not over it.

We've gone down this road but Maryland is a top 50 team. Down for them is a lot different that down for a non basketball school. If you took our history and lined up with Maryland, how many years have we had a better team? Im not understanding this expecting to win vs. them.

VCU is not a team full of freshman, fwiw. VCU has certainly passed us as they are a basketball only school in a better conference with better resources. That sucks but its just the fact of the matter. Having said that, that was still a piss poor performance by us that no one should be happy about. Of course, people are going to be angry about that game and rightfully so.

As for the question about recruiting by someone else. That seems to be a go to criticism but I don't think many people come on here and hype recruiting classes every year. Maybe some individual players. This past one was not that great as the went with a developmental big that people on here cried for. O'Connell is a solid get but he's certainly no game changer. The 2018 class was a great one but one of those players has now torn an ACL and an achilles so we aren't going to see him this year. Ezikpe and Reece are both playing well.

This is not a bad team despite a poor performance against VCU. We are 4 games into the season. I don't think we will be anywhere near as bad as last year but we have 20 more games to see if that is true or not.

Stop downgrading the value of our program every year to fit your narrative that everything is fine.

I point out facts about our program and where we have stood across time. That is not upgrading or downgrading. If people want to believe our history is better than it is, sobeit.

I don't have the narrative that everything is fine. I have shown where we stand vs. were our teams have been historically. No issues with people wanting us to be a top 50 program.....don't we all? But, some people actually believe that we once were (and more than just an individual season).

Pretending like there was never a time when we would have expected to be competitive with a borderline top 50 Maryland team, or a down VCU team is absolutely a downgrade, and I don't care what random numbers you pull out of your ass, you are wrong if you don't think that this message board, and the college basketball world as a whole would have expected us to be competitive in those games in the not too distant past. You now act like it is absurd to have those expectations. That is downgrading the program, and every year we get a little worse, a little further removed from those days, and every year you lower the expectations a little more.

(12-17-2020 11:26 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Yes, I would expect to be in the game against any top 50 team regardless of conference. Kind of like we used to compete (and in some cases win) against Butler, Dayton, Xavier, Clemson, Virginia Tech, Georgetown, Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan State, TCU, DePaul, Colorado, Notre Dame, Baylor... etc. Very rarely outside of the Mike Anderson teams did we get blown out in these games where we had an opportunity to make a statement. JJ did beat Syracuse a few years ago and competed against a good Louisville team way back when (Trey Freeman team?), but aside from that it is almost always a blowout and nobody thinks there is ever any chance.

And I'm not even counting the midmajor tournament and bubble teams we played in conference, or bracketbusters that were better than Maryland and VCU are this year.

The game against Butler (2011) was the 2nd best team we have had in 30+ years and we lost to them, who were an 8 seed and the 36th ranked team in America.

We are 1-1 vs. Clemson; losing in 07 and winning in 2011 (same year we lost to Butler).

We are 2-1 against Dayton, beating them the 2 most recent times 2017 and 2010.

We are 1-0 vs. Xavier beating them in the same year we lost to Butler. Also beat a good Richmond team and lost to Georgetown.

We haven't played VT since they became a relevant basketball school.

We are 2-2 vs. Georgetown, winning in 07 (best win ever?) and 10 (the same year we beat ND)

We beat an 107 ranked Georgia team in 2006

I know we lost to Wisky but cant find it.

In 2005 we lost to Michigan State

In 2005 we beat an 97th ranked TCU

We beat Notre Dame 2010 obviously

We lost to Baylor in 2010

Almost each of these were in the 2 year stretch were we legitimately a top 50 team.

Here are the top 50 games:

02- lost to Memphis by 25
03- lost to St Joes by 16; Dayton by 4. Beat UNC-W twice
04- Lost to UNC by 26, St. Joes by 3, Charlotte by 3. Beat GW
05- Beat St Joes
06- Lost to Wisonsin by 3, lost to Michigan by 23 beat (and lost to) George Mason and UNC-W.
07- Lost to Clemson by 4, beat Georgetown, lost to VT by 17, lost to Butler by 11
08- Lost to Clemson by 13, lost to UNC by 17, lost to Louisville by 11, lost to Georgetown by 18, beat VT
09- No games vs. top 50
10- lost to Mizzou by 5, Miss state by 14, Dayton by 8, beat Georgetown, beat ND, lost to Baylor
11-Lost to Georgetown by 3, beat Clemson, Xavier, Richmond, Mason(and lost), lost to butler by 2
12-Lost to South Floriday by 2, lost to Kentucky by 10, lost to Mizzou by 7, lost to VCU by 13 and 4, lost to Drewxel by 17
13- Lost to VCU by 13. Beat UVA
14- Lost to St Lou by 10, VCU by 21, LT by 5
15- Beat LSU, VCU, lost to Stanford by 7
16- Lost to Purdue by 22, st joes by 2, vcu by 9
17- Lost to Ville by 6, RI by 33, VCU by 3, MTSU by 13
18- Lost to WKY by 7, 8, and 22, MTSU by 7
19-Beat VCU by 10, Syracuse by 6, lost to Purdyue by 13
20- Lost to UNI by 5, Illinois by 14, Richmond by 3
21- Lost to Maryland by 18

(12-17-2020 01:05 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 12:41 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 11:53 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 10:46 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-16-2020 09:20 PM)monarx Wrote:  Agree. A veteran ODU team should be able to compete well with a down Maryland squad (and maybe win), and should certainly be expected to beat a VCU team full of freshman. Frankly, its embarrassing that we were expected to lose by 8 according to Vegas. No respect. And then to actually still get beat way worse.... obviously, Im still not over it.

We've gone down this road but Maryland is a top 50 team. Down for them is a lot different that down for a non basketball school. If you took our history and lined up with Maryland, how many years have we had a better team? Im not understanding this expecting to win vs. them.

VCU is not a team full of freshman, fwiw. VCU has certainly passed us as they are a basketball only school in a better conference with better resources. That sucks but its just the fact of the matter. Having said that, that was still a piss poor performance by us that no one should be happy about. Of course, people are going to be angry about that game and rightfully so.

As for the question about recruiting by someone else. That seems to be a go to criticism but I don't think many people come on here and hype recruiting classes every year. Maybe some individual players. This past one was not that great as the went with a developmental big that people on here cried for. O'Connell is a solid get but he's certainly no game changer. The 2018 class was a great one but one of those players has now torn an ACL and an achilles so we aren't going to see him this year. Ezikpe and Reece are both playing well.

This is not a bad team despite a poor performance against VCU. We are 4 games into the season. I don't think we will be anywhere near as bad as last year but we have 20 more games to see if that is true or not.

Stop downgrading the value of our program every year to fit your narrative that everything is fine.

I point out facts about our program and where we have stood across time. That is not upgrading or downgrading. If people want to believe our history is better than it is, sobeit.

I don't have the narrative that everything is fine. I have shown where we stand vs. were our teams have been historically. No issues with people wanting us to be a top 50 program.....don't we all? But, some people actually believe that we once were (and more than just an individual season).

Pretending like there was never a time when we would have expected to be competitive with a borderline top 50 Maryland team, or a down VCU team is absolutely a downgrade, and I don't care what random numbers you pull out of your ass, you are wrong if you don't think that this message board, and the college basketball world as a whole would have expected us to be competitive in those games in the not too distant past. You now act like it is absurd to have those expectations. That is downgrading the program, and every year we get a little worse, a little further removed from those days, and every year you lower the expectations a little more.

Obviously I never said the first sentence.

I don't you don't like facts but I like to work in facts.

To use one method of recognizing a coach's achievement while at ODU, here are the D1 coaches ODU has had for Men's Basketball, the number of years they were at ODU, and the number of teams they led to the NCAA Tournament.

Paul Webb -
9 Years
3 NCAA Tournaments

Tom Young -
6 Years
1 NCAA Tournament

Oliver Purnell -
3 Years
1 NCAA Tournament

Jeff Capel -
7 Years
2 NCAA Tournaments

Blaine Taylor -
12 Years
4 NCAA Tournaments

Jeff Jones -
7+ years
1 NCAA Tournament

Tom Young, Jeff Capel, and Blaine Taylor each had a team advance to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament.

(12-17-2020 01:20 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  To use one method of recognizing a coach's achievement while at ODU, here are the D1 coaches ODU has had for Men's Basketball, the number of years they were at ODU, and the number of teams they led to the NCAA Tournament.

Paul Webb -
9 Years
3 NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3 Years

Tom Young -
6 Years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 6 Years (Fired)

Oliver Purnell -
3 Years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 3 Years

Jeff Capel -
7 Years
2 NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3.5 Years (Fired)

Blaine Taylor -
12 Years
4 NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3 Years (Fired but not for performance)

Jeff Jones -
7+ years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 7 Years (Extended)

Tom Young, Jeff Capel, and Blaine Taylor each had a team advance to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament.

Seems obvious that there are two outliers and one of them is widely considered the worst coach in modern ODU history. Also seems the expectation should be at least 1 tournament every 3 years on average.

(12-17-2020 01:56 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 01:20 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  To use one method of recognizing a coach's achievement while at ODU, here are the D1 coaches ODU has had for Men's Basketball, the number of years they were at ODU, and the number of teams they led to the NCAA Tournament.

Paul Webb -
9 Years
2 NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 4.5 Years

Tom Young -
6 Years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 6 Years (Fired)

Oliver Purnell -
3 Years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 3 Years

Jeff Capel -
7 Years
2 NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3.5 Years (Fired)

Blaine Taylor -
12 Years
4 NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3 Years (Fired but not for performance)

Jeff Jones -
7+ years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 7 Years (Extended)

Tom Young, Jeff Capel, and Blaine Taylor each had a team advance to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament.

Seems obvious that there are two outliers and one of them is widely considered the worst coach in modern ODU history. Also seems the expectation should be at least 1 tournament every 3 years on average.

You need to edit your post for accuracy. I noticed that I left out Paul Webb's 1980 NCAA Tournament team so he had 3 trips in his 9 years.

It is worth noting that both Tom Young and Jeff Capel benefited from the prior coach (Paul Webb & Oliver Purnell) by having very good and experienced teams that they took immediately to the NCAA Tournament in their first seasons.

(12-17-2020 02:11 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 01:56 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 01:20 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  To use one method of recognizing a coach's achievement while at ODU, here are the D1 coaches ODU has had for Men's Basketball, the number of years they were at ODU, and the number of teams they led to the NCAA Tournament.

Paul Webb -
9 Years
NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3 Years

Tom Young -
6 Years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 6 Years (Fired)

Oliver Purnell -
3 Years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 3 Years

Jeff Capel -
7 Years
2 NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3.5 Years (Fired)

Blaine Taylor -
12 Years
4 NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3 Years (Fired but not for performance)

Jeff Jones -
7+ years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 7 Years (Extended)

Tom Young, Jeff Capel, and Blaine Taylor each had a team advance to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament.

Seems obvious that there are two outliers and one of them is widely considered the worst coach in modern ODU history. Also seems the expectation should be at least 1 tournament every 3 years on average.

You need to edit your post for accuracy. I noticed that I left out Paul Webb's 1980 NCAA Tournament team so he had 3 trips in his 9 years.

It is worth noting that both Tom Young and Jeff Capel benefited from the prior coach (Paul Webb & Oliver Purnell) by having very good and experienced teams that they took immediately to the NCAA Tournament in their first seasons.

I fixed it.

It is pretty interesting that every coach that hasn't been fired for performance has been to the NCAAT exactly once every 3 years. If I'm the AD I have a pretty clear standard to look at it would seem.

(12-17-2020 02:19 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 02:11 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 01:56 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 01:20 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  To use one method of recognizing a coach's achievement while at ODU, here are the D1 coaches ODU has had for Men's Basketball, the number of years they were at ODU, and the number of teams they led to the NCAA Tournament.

Paul Webb -
9 Years
NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3 Years

Tom Young -
6 Years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 6 Years (Fired)

Oliver Purnell -
3 Years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 3 Years

Jeff Capel -
7 Years
2 NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3.5 Years (Fired)

Blaine Taylor -
12 Years
4 NCAA Tournaments - 1 Every 3 Years (Fired but not for performance)

Jeff Jones -
7+ years
1 NCAA Tournament - 1 Every 7 Years (Extended)

Tom Young, Jeff Capel, and Blaine Taylor each had a team advance to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament.

Seems obvious that there are two outliers and one of them is widely considered the worst coach in modern ODU history. Also seems the expectation should be at least 1 tournament every 3 years on average.

You need to edit your post for accuracy. I noticed that I left out Paul Webb's 1980 NCAA Tournament team so he had 3 trips in his 9 years.

It is worth noting that both Tom Young and Jeff Capel benefited from the prior coach (Paul Webb & Oliver Purnell) by having very good and experienced teams that they took immediately to the NCAA Tournament in their first seasons.

I fixed it.

It is pretty interesting that every coach that hasn't been fired for performance has been to the NCAAT exactly once every 3 years. If I'm the AD I have a pretty clear standard to look at it would seem.

Also, if both Paul Webb and Oliver Purnell had stayed on 1 more year they probably would have each had another NCAA team and an even better than 1 in 3 years ratio. The teams they walked away from that were returning were very talented teams featuring players like Kenny Gattison and Petey Sessoms. And if Blaine had kept his head in the game he too may have had another NCAA team as well.

When's Jones' contract up?

(12-17-2020 01:20 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  To use one method of recognizing a coach's achievement while at ODU, here are the D1 coaches ODU has had for Men's Basketball, the number of years they were at ODU, and the number of teams they led to the NCAA Tournament.

Paul Webb -
9 Years
3 NCAA Tournaments

Tom Young -
6 Years
1 NCAA Tournament

Oliver Purnell -
3 Years
1 NCAA Tournament

Jeff Capel -
7 Years
2 NCAA Tournaments

Blaine Taylor -
12 Years
4 NCAA Tournaments

Jeff Jones -
7+ years
1 NCAA Tournament

Tom Young, Jeff Capel, and Blaine Taylor each had a team advance to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament.

By this metric, Jeff Jones is the worst coach we've ever had. Not saying he is, but if thats what you judge by (and its an important part) the numbers are what they are. Tom Young and Jeff Capel did as good or better, and at least Capel had an NCAA win too. Tom young got fired for 1 NCAA in 6 years. Shows me Jones should definitely be on the hot seat.

(12-17-2020 03:11 PM)monarx Wrote:  

(12-17-2020 01:20 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  To use one method of recognizing a coach's achievement while at ODU, here are the D1 coaches ODU has had for Men's Basketball, the number of years they were at ODU, and the number of teams they led to the NCAA Tournament.

Paul Webb -
9 Years
3 NCAA Tournaments

Tom Young -
6 Years
1 NCAA Tournament

Oliver Purnell -
3 Years
1 NCAA Tournament

Jeff Capel -
7 Years
2 NCAA Tournaments

Blaine Taylor -
12 Years
4 NCAA Tournaments

Jeff Jones -
7+ years
1 NCAA Tournament

Tom Young, Jeff Capel, and Blaine Taylor each had a team advance to the 2nd round of the NCAA Tournament.

By this metric, Jeff Jones is the worst coach we've ever had. Not saying he is, but if thats what you judge by (and its an important part) the numbers are what they are. Tom Young and Jeff Capel did as good or better, and at least Capel had an NCAA win too. Tom young got fired for 1 NCAA in 6 years. Shows me Jones should definitely be on the hot seat.

Some want to judge simply by NCAA tourney appearances....fine. If that is your criteria for a coach, sobeit.

This ignores what coaches had when the were hired. Tom Young and Jeff Capel were gifted great situations to come in on. Blaine and Jones took over when the programs were in bad situations. Young never won with his own players. Capel had 1-2 good years with his own players but really was bad outside of that. Blaine was able to turn it around after a few years and peaked in 10/11 before coming crashing down. Jones rebuilt the program from day 1. Of course last year was a trainwreck and he needs to get things turned around this year. If this year is another trainwreck, its probably time to have that conversation.

Young went 90-87 at ODU but 67-79 after losing Gattison.

Young and Capel are by far the worst coaches we have had

At what point does simply avoiding trainwrecks stop being enough?

(12-17-2020 03:57 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  At what point does simply avoiding trainwrecks stop being enough?

We've had 1 bad season under Jones.

I don't believe you answered me. What ranking do we need to achieve to not be embarrassing?