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If we trust Fickell, then we have to assume Ridder is the best option. That belies what our eyes are telling us, at least in a small sample size. Therefore, we don’t understand the whole picture, or we shouldn’t trust the coach in the QB selection.

People are human, I guess. Perhaps he’s a sucker for his own principles? Or maybe Bryant isn’t the stud we think he is.

(09-29-2020 06:38 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  If we trust Fickell, then we have to assume Ridder is the best option. That belies what our eyes are telling us, at least in a small sample size. Therefore, we don’t understand the whole picture, or we shouldn’t trust the coach in the QB selection.

People are human, I guess. Perhaps he’s a sucker for his own principles? Or maybe Bryant isn’t the stud we think he is.

I don't disagree but we are fans on a message board and when your worst position group is the most important position on the field it's going to be a hot topic of discussion. Coaches aren't infallible either; Fickell even mentioned he should have played Bryant more last year. He certainly should have gone in after Des sustained the injury at USF and played vs Temple. Luckily playing an injured QB didn't cost us those games but if Bryant had a couple of games under his belt maybe we get a little more from him and beat Memphis in his 3rd game with extended time vs his 1st meaningful game. Of course it could have gone the other way and Memphis might have had more film on him and had a good defensive gameplan.

(09-29-2020 05:49 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  Prater needs a year to put on 25 pounds of muscle, learn the playbook and adjust to this level. He’s not playing against Mariemont and Madeira anymore. Ridder came into the program at a buck seventy as well, and benefitted from that redshirt year to add good weight and strength. That’s why he was physically ready to take on UCLA in week 1 in 2018.

Which is what Prater is doing right now. i should have been clear that my post was less about this season and more about next season. Given how hyped ppl were about Prater's signing, myself included in that list, i wonder how patient ppl will be with Coach if he uses the same "logic" to keep Des as QB1 (i believe he has at least one more season of eligibility after this one).

(09-28-2020 10:36 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-28-2020 10:06 PM)eroc Wrote:  PPL seem more than willing to trust Coach Fickell in the matter of Ridder v. Bryant.

My question is how would people feel if/when this becomes Ridder v Prater? Will all those ppl who seem satisfied with the leadership/intangibles rationalization (projected or otherwise) find that explanation as acceptable in keeping Prater on the bench?

What are you saying, Fickell can't be trusted LOL? How about we cross the Prater bridge next season when it's actually relevant?

When it comes to Ridder? Yes. That's exactly what i'm saying. i don't know if it's a blindspot, i don't know what it is but when it comes to Ridder he makes every excuse possible. Don't get anything twisted about what i'm saying. i absolutely love everything else about what Coach has done. But when it comes to Ridder, i don't trust his judgment.

(09-29-2020 07:53 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(09-28-2020 10:36 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-28-2020 10:06 PM)eroc Wrote:  PPL seem more than willing to trust Coach Fickell in the matter of Ridder v. Bryant.

My question is how would people feel if/when this becomes Ridder v Prater? Will all those ppl who seem satisfied with the leadership/intangibles rationalization (projected or otherwise) find that explanation as acceptable in keeping Prater on the bench?

What are you saying, Fickell can't be trusted LOL? How about we cross the Prater bridge next season when it's actually relevant?

When it comes to Ridder? Yes. That's exactly what i'm saying. i don't know if it's a blindspot, i don't know what it is but when it comes to Ridder he makes every excuse possible. Don't get anything twisted about what i'm saying. i absolutely love everything else about what Coach has done. But when it comes to Ridder, i don't trust his judgment.

I tend to agree with you.

At the least, Des should get a shorter leash and he should be getting Bryant more reps in practice.

But there is always the chance that the preponderance of Bryant’s work in practice isn’t as good as what we think it is. And then do we give Fickell the benefit of the doubt given where his vision has taken the program so far?

Just playing devil’s advocate because I would like to see what Bryant could do with the first team wide receiver corps and the perfect time to do it would be vs USF.

(09-29-2020 08:56 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  But there is always the chance that the preponderance of Bryant’s work in practice isn’t as good as what we think it is.

I've said this a couple times and I don't want to keep repeating myself but at some point even if he's behind in practice you've got to change things up; some guys are just better players when the bright lights come on. Maybe it's the opposite for Ridder; maybe he's a better practice player than a game player.

What if the-preponderance of the evidence in games is Ridder is not as good as what we think it is. lol.

If the coaches watch his tape and say he’s the best, they need to recruit a bunch more guys like Prater ASAP.

If I had to guess, I think they'll try to get Bryant snaps earlier than usual against USF. Then they can talk about it during the bye week if Ben comes in and looks better. Just a guess.

Fick’s media press conference is today. I suspect the QB position will be discussed.

(09-29-2020 08:56 AM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  

(09-29-2020 07:53 AM)eroc Wrote:  

(09-28-2020 10:36 PM)UCGrad1992 Wrote:  

(09-28-2020 10:06 PM)eroc Wrote:  PPL seem more than willing to trust Coach Fickell in the matter of Ridder v. Bryant.

My question is how would people feel if/when this becomes Ridder v Prater? Will all those ppl who seem satisfied with the leadership/intangibles rationalization (projected or otherwise) find that explanation as acceptable in keeping Prater on the bench?

What are you saying, Fickell can't be trusted LOL? How about we cross the Prater bridge next season when it's actually relevant?

When it comes to Ridder? Yes. That's exactly what i'm saying. i don't know if it's a blindspot, i don't know what it is but when it comes to Ridder he makes every excuse possible. Don't get anything twisted about what i'm saying. i absolutely love everything else about what Coach has done. But when it comes to Ridder, i don't trust his judgment.

I tend to agree with you.

At the least, Des should get a shorter leash and he should be getting Bryant more reps in practice.

But there is always the chance that the preponderance of Bryant’s work in practice isn’t as good as what we think it is. And then do we give Fickell the benefit of the doubt given where his vision has taken the program so far?

Just playing devil’s advocate because I would like to see what Bryant could do with the first team wide receiver corps and the perfect time to do it would be vs USF.

Bolded, maybe it happens. But it won't surprise me if Ridder is named the sole starter all week for the benefit of USF's preparation and then UC pulls a switch sometime during the game.

One thing's for sure, UC fans (reasonably) expect a dominant performance this Saturday given USF's blowout loss at Notre Dame. We all know we should never compare scores but we also know that we all do anyway.

(09-28-2020 10:04 PM)Sweetness Wrote:  

(09-28-2020 09:49 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(09-28-2020 09:23 PM)CoachFickFan Wrote:  The Bearcats should play the best QB.
It seems that the QB with the best QB rating is Des Ridder, who has (at 154.5) the best UC QB Rating since Zach Collaros (195.5, 2009) was a backup to Tony Pike, and Brendon Kay (163.1) was a backup to Munchie Legaux (2012). It is clear that the very best recent teams had two really good QBs.

AAC Passing QB Rating Leaders 2020
Dillon Gabriel, UCF, 173.5, #13 National Rank
Brady White, Memphis, 166.8, #16 National Rank
Shane Buechelle, SMU, 164.5, #18 National Rank
Desmond Ritter, Cincinnati, 154.5, #22 National Rank
Holton Ahlers, ECU 137.8, #38, National Rank
Zach Smith, Tulsa, 118.7, #57, National Rank
Jordan McClain, USF, 111.3
Keon Howard, Tulane, 83.0
Dalen Morris, 65.0, Navy
Both Houston and Temple haven’t
played a game yet. Houston’s AD had a game scheduled at Baylor 3 hours after Baylor/LA Tech game was postponed. But 22 hours before the game was scheduled to be played, Baylor cancelled because of COVID. Houston’s equipment truck made it to the stadium in Waco, but not the Cougars.
These two AAC QBs/Teams haven’t played in 2020 yet:
Clayton Tune, Houston, 141.7 QBR, 2019
Anthony Russo, Temple, 126.9 QBR,2019

Bearcat Passing QB Rating Leaders 2004-2020 with some Passing Yards Stats
2020, Desmond Ridder, Cincinnati, 154.5,
2019, Desmond Ridder, 123.7, 2164 passing yards
2019, Ben Bryant, 119.4, 388 passing yards
2018, Desmond Ridder, 146.4
2017, Hayden Moore, 118.4
2016. Hayden Moore, 123.4, 1744 passing yards
2016, Gunner Kiel 117.6, 804 passing yards
2015, Gunner Kiel, 151.9, 2777 passing yards
2015, Hayden Moore, 123.4, 1885 passing yards
2014, Gunner Kiel, 149.4, 3254 passing yards
2014, Munchie Legaux, 136.4, 574 passing yards
2013, Brendon Kay, 148.4, 3302 passing yards
2013, Munchie Legaux, 122.9, 382 passing yards
2012, Munchie Legaux, 125.7, 120/230, 1716 passing yards, 13 tds, 9 int
2012, Brendon Kay, 163.1, 87/138, 1298 passing yards, 10 tds, 2 ints
2011, Zach Collaros, 131.6
2010, Zach Collaros, 137.5
2009, Tony Pike, 149.8, 2520 passing yards
2009, Zach Collaros, 195.5, 1434 passing yards
2008, Tony Pike, 136.4, 2407 passing yards, 19tds, 11 ints
2008, Dustin Grutza, 166.7, 617 passing yards, 5 tds, 1 ints
2007, Ben Mauk, 150.6, 3121 passing yards
2007, Dustin Grutza, 161.9, 432 passing yards
2006, Dustin Grutza, 123.5, 1632 passing yards
2006, Nick Davila, 151.6, 1057 passing yards
2005, Dustin Grutza, 111.1, 1799 passing yards
2005, Nick Davila, 142.4, 344 passing yards
2004, Gino Guidugli, 146.5

Guidugli is the current QB coach, and his QB coach was Dan Enos, who is now the Bearcats Assistant Head Coach and RB coach but has been OC for Miami FL, Alabama, and Arkansas.

I would argue that passer rating is a flawed metric in that it doesn't account for the type of passes completed. A QB could in theory "game" the system by completing a lot of simple screen and checkdown passes. It's similar to looking at an MLB outfielders total amount of errors, and concluding because they have made very few errors they are a good outfielder. In reality they could be a below average outfielder because they don't have the range of a great outfielder. Thereby limiting the amount of errors by not having as many opportunities to make mistakes. IMO, this is what is happening with Ridders rating. Denbrock doesn't call a lot of pass plays across the middle because he is afraid Ridder will throw more interceptions. Opposing defenses adjust to this and leave the middle more open while focusing more on the edges.

It also doesn't account for the competition that you're playing against.

I don't think we need stats, eye test is very clear. Need to get Bryant some snaps to see what he can do.

(09-29-2020 10:21 AM)bcat1997 Wrote:  

(09-28-2020 10:04 PM)Sweetness Wrote:  

(09-28-2020 09:49 PM)RuckleSt Wrote:  

(09-28-2020 09:23 PM)CoachFickFan Wrote:  The Bearcats should play the best QB.
It seems that the QB with the best QB rating is Des Ridder, who has (at 154.5) the best UC QB Rating since Zach Collaros (195.5, 2009) was a backup to Tony Pike, and Brendon Kay (163.1) was a backup to Munchie Legaux (2012). It is clear that the very best recent teams had two really good QBs.

AAC Passing QB Rating Leaders 2020
Dillon Gabriel, UCF, 173.5, #13 National Rank
Brady White, Memphis, 166.8, #16 National Rank
Shane Buechelle, SMU, 164.5, #18 National Rank
Desmond Ritter, Cincinnati, 154.5, #22 National Rank
Holton Ahlers, ECU 137.8, #38, National Rank
Zach Smith, Tulsa, 118.7, #57, National Rank
Jordan McClain, USF, 111.3
Keon Howard, Tulane, 83.0
Dalen Morris, 65.0, Navy
Both Houston and Temple haven’t
played a game yet. Houston’s AD had a game scheduled at Baylor 3 hours after Baylor/LA Tech game was postponed. But 22 hours before the game was scheduled to be played, Baylor cancelled because of COVID. Houston’s equipment truck made it to the stadium in Waco, but not the Cougars.
These two AAC QBs/Teams haven’t played in 2020 yet:
Clayton Tune, Houston, 141.7 QBR, 2019
Anthony Russo, Temple, 126.9 QBR,2019

Bearcat Passing QB Rating Leaders 2004-2020 with some Passing Yards Stats
2020, Desmond Ridder, Cincinnati, 154.5,
2019, Desmond Ridder, 123.7, 2164 passing yards
2019, Ben Bryant, 119.4, 388 passing yards
2018, Desmond Ridder, 146.4
2017, Hayden Moore, 118.4
2016. Hayden Moore, 123.4, 1744 passing yards
2016, Gunner Kiel 117.6, 804 passing yards
2015, Gunner Kiel, 151.9, 2777 passing yards
2015, Hayden Moore, 123.4, 1885 passing yards
2014, Gunner Kiel, 149.4, 3254 passing yards
2014, Munchie Legaux, 136.4, 574 passing yards
2013, Brendon Kay, 148.4, 3302 passing yards
2013, Munchie Legaux, 122.9, 382 passing yards
2012, Munchie Legaux, 125.7, 120/230, 1716 passing yards, 13 tds, 9 int
2012, Brendon Kay, 163.1, 87/138, 1298 passing yards, 10 tds, 2 ints
2011, Zach Collaros, 131.6
2010, Zach Collaros, 137.5
2009, Tony Pike, 149.8, 2520 passing yards
2009, Zach Collaros, 195.5, 1434 passing yards
2008, Tony Pike, 136.4, 2407 passing yards, 19tds, 11 ints
2008, Dustin Grutza, 166.7, 617 passing yards, 5 tds, 1 ints
2007, Ben Mauk, 150.6, 3121 passing yards
2007, Dustin Grutza, 161.9, 432 passing yards
2006, Dustin Grutza, 123.5, 1632 passing yards
2006, Nick Davila, 151.6, 1057 passing yards
2005, Dustin Grutza, 111.1, 1799 passing yards
2005, Nick Davila, 142.4, 344 passing yards
2004, Gino Guidugli, 146.5

Guidugli is the current QB coach, and his QB coach was Dan Enos, who is now the Bearcats Assistant Head Coach and RB coach but has been OC for Miami FL, Alabama, and Arkansas.

I would argue that passer rating is a flawed metric in that it doesn't account for the type of passes completed. A QB could in theory "game" the system by completing a lot of simple screen and checkdown passes. It's similar to looking at an MLB outfielders total amount of errors, and concluding because they have made very few errors they are a good outfielder. In reality they could be a below average outfielder because they don't have the range of a great outfielder. Thereby limiting the amount of errors by not having as many opportunities to make mistakes. IMO, this is what is happening with Ridders rating. Denbrock doesn't call a lot of pass plays across the middle because he is afraid Ridder will throw more interceptions. Opposing defenses adjust to this and leave the middle more open while focusing more on the edges.

It also doesn't account for the competition that you're playing against.

I don't think we need stats, eye test is very clear. Need to get Bryant some snaps to see what he can do.

Agree. When a QB is missing that many open WR’s and in most of those cases he isn’t even close, the eye test is very telling. I could also add the missed opportunity from inside the 5 when he misread the read option, the Turnovers, batted balls, unnecessary sacks taken, etc... and I’ve seen enough to tell me he is not a QB that could lead most teams to a conference championship. It will take a special defense, a great run game, and possibly a little luck to get us there.

What frustrated me the most last week was Ridder's running. He is only acceptable as a QB if he can use his legs to break a few big runs each game. He appeared to be trying to prove he can be QB without using his legs, and he can't.

(09-29-2020 02:47 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  What frustrated me the most last week was Ridder's running. He is only acceptable as a QB if he can use his legs to break a few big runs each game. He appeared to be trying to prove he can be QB without using his legs, and he can't.

Yep, I agree. It made me wonder if they've told him not to run this year for fear of injury but to be disciplined and stay in the pocket. If so, that didn't really help the passing game.

(09-29-2020 04:28 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(09-29-2020 02:47 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  What frustrated me the most last week was Ridder's running. He is only acceptable as a QB if he can use his legs to break a few big runs each game. He appeared to be trying to prove he can be QB without using his legs, and he can't.

Yep, I agree. It made me wonder if they've told him not to run this year for fear of injury but to be disciplined and stay in the pocket. If so, that didn't really help the passing game.

Without using his legs he is a very mediocre QB.

(09-29-2020 05:47 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-29-2020 04:28 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(09-29-2020 02:47 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  What frustrated me the most last week was Ridder's running. He is only acceptable as a QB if he can use his legs to break a few big runs each game. He appeared to be trying to prove he can be QB without using his legs, and he can't.

Yep, I agree. It made me wonder if they've told him not to run this year for fear of injury but to be disciplined and stay in the pocket. If so, that didn't really help the passing game.

Without using his legs he is a very mediocre QB.

May be kicking a dead horse but I would say he’s below mediocre without his legs.

Multiple TO’s, multiple missed open receivers, he had good protection yet still took sacks, a lot of his completions were poorly thrown, and barely completed any balls that traveled more than 15 yards down field.

(09-30-2020 05:26 PM)C1ncy4Life Wrote:  

(09-29-2020 05:47 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-29-2020 04:28 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(09-29-2020 02:47 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  What frustrated me the most last week was Ridder's running. He is only acceptable as a QB if he can use his legs to break a few big runs each game. He appeared to be trying to prove he can be QB without using his legs, and he can't.

Yep, I agree. It made me wonder if they've told him not to run this year for fear of injury but to be disciplined and stay in the pocket. If so, that didn't really help the passing game.

Without using his legs he is a very mediocre QB.

May be kicking a dead horse but I would say he’s below mediocre without his legs.

Multiple TO’s, multiple missed open receivers, he had good protection yet still took sacks, a lot of his completions were poorly thrown, and barely completed any balls that traveled more than 15 yards down field.

if anything, maybe Coach Fickell should switch up the QB rotation to give us a new horse to beat..

(09-30-2020 05:39 PM)eroc Wrote:  

(09-30-2020 05:26 PM)C1ncy4Life Wrote:  

(09-29-2020 05:47 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(09-29-2020 04:28 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(09-29-2020 02:47 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  What frustrated me the most last week was Ridder's running. He is only acceptable as a QB if he can use his legs to break a few big runs each game. He appeared to be trying to prove he can be QB without using his legs, and he can't.

Yep, I agree. It made me wonder if they've told him not to run this year for fear of injury but to be disciplined and stay in the pocket. If so, that didn't really help the passing game.

Without using his legs he is a very mediocre QB.

May be kicking a dead horse but I would say he’s below mediocre without his legs.

Multiple TO’s, multiple missed open receivers, he had good protection yet still took sacks, a lot of his completions were poorly thrown, and barely completed any balls that traveled more than 15 yards down field.

if anything, maybe Coach Fickell should switch up the QB rotation to give us a new horse to beat..

I’d happily be for that. I can’t see how he could be worse than what we saw from Ridder, and I think he has a higher upside. Unfortunately, I doubt we get that chance.

Since this is likely to be a week in-week out topic of conversation, might as well keep it going:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...610354001/

Quote:Fickell said Ridder had his head down in the locker room following the win. Senior running back Gerrid Doaks noticed.

"I definitely gave him words of encouragement," Doaks said. " 'That's just one game, bruh, you can't live in the past. On to the next. Everybody doesn't play to their best potential every week. Just look forward to the next game.' "

Quote:"I'm not as worried about Dez as I am about us just making sure we can get a better plan to continue to keep his confidence in what he's doing," Fickell said. "He's still a unique kid."

Des obviously cannot help but feel his failure. He knows what we all know, including Coach. At what point does it actually become counter productive for Coach to keep sending him out there? i'm legit worried that the pressure to not fail his teammates may actually break him.

(10-03-2020 08:32 PM)eroc Wrote:  Since this is likely to be a week in-week out topic of conversation, might as well keep it going:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/...610354001/

Quote:Fickell said Ridder had his head down in the locker room following the win. Senior running back Gerrid Doaks noticed.

"I definitely gave him words of encouragement," Doaks said. " 'That's just one game, bruh, you can't live in the past. On to the next. Everybody doesn't play to their best potential every week. Just look forward to the next game.' "

Quote:"I'm not as worried about Dez as I am about us just making sure we can get a better plan to continue to keep his confidence in what he's doing," Fickell said. "He's still a unique kid."

Des obviously cannot help but feel his failure. He knows what we all know, including Coach. At what point does it actually become counter productive for Coach to keep sending him out there? i'm legit worried that the pressure to not fail his teammates may actually break him.

Maybe it already has. He has clearly regressed since is Freshman year. In fact I’d argue in a lot of ways he’s gotten worse each year.