(05-29-2020 11:07 AM)Herd6993 Wrote:  

(05-29-2020 08:47 AM)johnintx Wrote:  I'm an outsider with no axe to grind and no dog in the hunt.

I have nothing against Louisiana Tech, but from my perspective, this is one of the roadblocks to a reshuffling of C-USA and the Sun Belt. They see themselves as above ULL and especially ULM. They would consider it a step down to move to a conference with them.

The other roadblocks: the Sun Belt schools are generally happy with each other, and no one outside of Texas wants to go to UTEP.

Plus North Texas, UTSA, FIU, FAU, MTSU, WKU just left the Sun Belt a few years ago and going back would be admitting they made a mistake.

This is a fair point, although UTSA came from the WAC, not the Sun Belt.

When ULM, UL and LaTurd lose the ability to transfer money from the General Fund of the university next year it will start to get interesting. Currently ULM and LaTurd’s athletic budget is comprised of roughly half the budget from the GF transfer. ULM will be back to about $10M for their entire athletic budget and LaTurd will be around $13M.

Then we can revisit this whole realignment or scheduling agreement.

(05-29-2020 07:45 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  When ULM, UL and LaTurd lose the ability to transfer money from the General Fund of the university next year it will start to get interesting. Currently ULM and LaTurd’s athletic budget is comprised of roughly half the budget from the GF transfer. ULM will be back to about $10M for their entire athletic budget and LaTurd will be around $13M.

Then we can revisit this whole realignment or scheduling agreement.

Is that a common disparaging term for Louisiana Tech? It's not even clever.

(05-29-2020 07:52 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-29-2020 07:45 PM)geauxcajuns Wrote:  When ULM, UL and LaTurd lose the ability to transfer money from the General Fund of the university next year it will start to get interesting. Currently ULM and LaTurd’s athletic budget is comprised of roughly half the budget from the GF transfer. ULM will be back to about $10M for their entire athletic budget and LaTurd will be around $13M.

Then we can revisit this whole realignment or scheduling agreement.

Is that a common disparaging term for Louisiana Tech? It's not even clever.

Very good point. Similarly, I see some Memphis fans posting on this board and using the term "Old Piss" for Ole Miss. Another example of some "word play" that's not clever or original. Very lame, in fact.

CUSA fans clinging to the old days when they were the better conference. Those days are over.

Basketball - only thing that matters are tournament credits, Both are a one bid league.

Football - SBC higher ranked conference and therefore more CFB revenue three of the last four years. Better TV contract, App had 8 nationally televised games last year, you’d have to add 3-4 CUSA teams to reach that numbers.

Baseball - SBC has always been better

(05-29-2020 08:01 PM)bill dazzle Wrote:  Very good point. Similarly, I see some Memphis fans posting on this board and using the term "Old Piss" for Ole Miss. Another example of some "word play" that's not clever or original. Very lame, in fact.

There're some that are a bit amusing after the first couple of beers but I reckon it would have to be the second six pack in too short a period of time on too hot a day before those two would start to sound funny.

On the actual topic, I reckon that unless the coming budget crunches at the state levels force some of the CUSA and SBC schools to rethink their commitment to FBS football, things stay locked in place with all the current ongoing complaints continuing to go on until the mid-decade hits and we found out whether there will be bigger moves that see the AAC raided and then the AAC raiding.

Between the reducing the numbers involved, possibly untangling some tricky divisional questions, and freeing some schools from hoping for a step up who shouldn't have been entertaining those hopes, if it happens it seems highly likely there'll be a reshuffle.

(05-30-2020 07:09 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  CUSA fans clinging to the old days when they were the better conference. Those days are over.

Basketball - only thing that matters are tournament credits, Both are a one bid league.

Football - SBC higher ranked conference and therefore more CFB revenue three of the last four years. Better TV contract, App had 8 nationally televised games last year, you’d have to add 3-4 CUSA teams to reach that numbers.

Baseball - SBC has always been better

Your televised football games claim is without merit. I believe you get to 8 with the championship game and bowl game. That means 6 regular season games? Rice had 5 nationally televised games in 2019 consisting of Army, Baylor, Texas, Wake Forest and North Texas. Our champions, Florida Atlantic, played Ohio State, UCF, Charlotte, Marshall, Southern Miss, UAB, and SMU on national television. That’s 7 for FAU and 5 for Rice.

The hyperbolic baseball claim is equally ridiculous, but I don’t want to take the time to look up the facts. Congratulations on adding Coastal Carolina, though. Solid baseball program.

(05-30-2020 11:26 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-30-2020 07:09 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  CUSA fans clinging to the old days when they were the better conference. Those days are over.

Basketball - only thing that matters are tournament credits, Both are a one bid league.

Football - SBC higher ranked conference and therefore more CFB revenue three of the last four years. Better TV contract, App had 8 nationally televised games last year, you’d have to add 3-4 CUSA teams to reach that numbers.

Baseball - SBC has always been better

Your televised football games claim is without merit. I believe you get to 8 with the championship game and bowl game. That means 6 regular season games? Rice had 5 nationally televised games in 2019 consisting of Army, Baylor, Texas, Wake Forest and North Texas. Our champions, Florida Atlantic, played Ohio State, UCF, Charlotte, Marshall, Southern Miss, UAB, and SMU on national television. That’s 7 for FAU and 5 for Rice.

The hyperbolic baseball claim is equally ridiculous, but I don’t want to take the time to look up the facts. Congratulations on adding Coastal Carolina, though. Solid baseball program.

Well, we're picking up Saturday ESPN while you play on CBSNBC Sports or whatever it's called that no one watches.

(05-30-2020 11:56 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(05-30-2020 11:26 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-30-2020 07:09 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  CUSA fans clinging to the old days when they were the better conference. Those days are over.

Basketball - only thing that matters are tournament credits, Both are a one bid league.

Football - SBC higher ranked conference and therefore more CFB revenue three of the last four years. Better TV contract, App had 8 nationally televised games last year, you’d have to add 3-4 CUSA teams to reach that numbers.

Baseball - SBC has always been better

Your televised football games claim is without merit. I believe you get to 8 with the championship game and bowl game. That means 6 regular season games? Rice had 5 nationally televised games in 2019 consisting of Army, Baylor, Texas, Wake Forest and North Texas. Our champions, Florida Atlantic, played Ohio State, UCF, Charlotte, Marshall, Southern Miss, UAB, and SMU on national television. That’s 7 for FAU and 5 for Rice.

The hyperbolic baseball claim is equally ridiculous, but I don’t want to take the time to look up the facts. Congratulations on adding Coastal Carolina, though. Solid baseball program.

Well, we're picking up Saturday ESPN while you play on CBSNBC Sports or whatever it's called that no one watches.

Now I'm mildly interested. Let's see what wikipedia has to say
14 Sun Belt home games televised on ESPN / 2/ U, counting the CCG.
(Appalachian State was on ESPN twice (CCG), ESPN-2 twice (@SC) and ESPN-U 3 times).

CUSA? 13 games on CBS-SN, 9 games on NFL Network, 14 games on Stadium. (Some number of the CBS-SN and Stadium games were also on Facebook, if anyone cares.) That's 22 nationally televised games, plus whatever you consider Stadium.

So CUSA has more nationally televised games, but the Sun Belt games are on ESPN networks.

For the question at hand, CUSA vs Sun Belt, 4 of Rice's 5 national TV appearances were non-conference. Wake Forest and Baylor and Texas and Army are playing Rice because it's Rice (SWC pedigree, academic halo), not because they're CUSA over Sun Belt.

CUSA's big talking point over the Sun Belt at this point is that CUSA has some programs with some pedigree (Rice, UTEP, Southern Miss, Marshall), while Sun Belt has a bunch of former FCS national champions (App State, Georgia Southern, ULM) What does that get you in 2020?

Honestly who here knows what channel Stadium is on their local provider? Please don’t argue CUSA has a better TV deal that’s ludicrous.

One of those former FCS teams get you 13 wins and a top 20 ranking. The SBC choose football schools, CUSA chose teams in bigger city locations (can’t say markets because they don’t carry their local markets, P5s do).

(05-30-2020 01:32 PM)Saint3333 Wrote:  Honestly who here knows what channel Stadium is on their local provider? Please don’t argue CUSA has a better TV deal that’s ludicrous.

The two conferences have different tv deals. I am not arguing which is better. But after trying Wednesday night televised games in the WAC, I can say my preference is football on Saturday and the occasional Friday night. Again, my preference.

I am pointing out that exaggerated claim about your school (congratulations on the conference championship and bowl win) playing more nationally televised games than 3 or 4 C-USA schools together. It is simply not true.

We’re hosting defending national champion LSU on September 19, if all goes as scheduled. See you on national tv somewhere, and probably also for our Bayou Bucket rivalry game with Houston on September 3, and our home opener with Army on September 12.

(05-30-2020 07:09 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  CUSA fans clinging to the old days when they were the better conference. Those days are over.

Basketball - only thing that matters are tournament credits, Both are a one bid league.

Football - SBC higher ranked conference and therefore more CFB revenue three of the last four years. Better TV contract, App had 8 nationally televised games last year, you’d have to add 3-4 CUSA teams to reach that numbers.

Baseball - SBC has always been better

You are way off base....

Yes, the Sun Belt has been better at the top of their conference. But, for the most part the SBC has been carried by App State and Troy. The rest of the conference has not been that great...

Over the past 3 seasons, only 4 Sun Belt programs have winning records in football (App State, Troy, Arkansas State, & ULL). That means only 40% of the Sun Belt has played winning football over the last 3 seasons.

C-USA has 7 programs with winning records over the last 3 season (UAB, FAU, LA Tech, Marshall, FIU, Southern Miss, & North Texas). That means 50% of all C-USA programs have posted winning records over the past 3 seasons.

Sure the Sun Belt sold their souls to get games on ESPN, but that didn't help them get better bowl ties. As bad as C-USA's bowl ties are, they are still better than the Sun Belt's bowl ties.

Basketball isn't close at all. C-USA is much better. Most years C-USA enjoys a higher NCAA Tournament seed than the Sun Belt. I can't actually remember a year when the Sun Belt had a higher seed. Also, C-USA has actually had a few first round wins. When was the last time a Sun Belt team won an NCAA tournament game?

Baseball is not a major sport.

And overall, C-USA programs just have bigger budgets, which allows a fair amount of our programs to poach from Sun Belt programs. I know North Texas regularly poaches from Sun Belt members.

Objectively looking at the two conferences, there is no debate. Although it is really a tallest midget contest, C-USA is clearly the better overall conference.

(05-30-2020 03:06 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Over the past 3 seasons, only 4 Sun Belt programs have winning records in football (App State, Troy, Arkansas State, & ULL). That means only 40% of the Sun Belt has played winning football over the last 3 seasons.

C-USA has 7 programs with winning records over the last 3 season (UAB, FAU, LA Tech, Marshall, FIU, Southern Miss, & North Texas). That means 50% of all C-USA programs have posted winning records over the past 3 seasons.

Perfect example of small sample size leading to statistically insignificant differences.

There's more than having a winning record, getting your conference teams ranked will help more. App State got ranked last year.

(05-30-2020 03:06 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(05-30-2020 07:09 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  CUSA fans clinging to the old days when they were the better conference. Those days are over.

Basketball - only thing that matters are tournament credits, Both are a one bid league.

Football - SBC higher ranked conference and therefore more CFB revenue three of the last four years. Better TV contract, App had 8 nationally televised games last year, you’d have to add 3-4 CUSA teams to reach that numbers.

Baseball - SBC has always been better

You are way off base....

Yes, the Sun Belt has been better at the top of their conference. But, for the most part the SBC has been carried by App State and Troy. The rest of the conference has not been that great...

Over the past 3 seasons, only 4 Sun Belt programs have winning records in football (App State, Troy, Arkansas State, & ULL). That means only 40% of the Sun Belt has played winning football over the last 3 seasons.

C-USA has 7 programs with winning records over the last 3 season (UAB, FAU, LA Tech, Marshall, FIU, Southern Miss, & North Texas). That means 50% of all C-USA programs have posted winning records over the past 3 seasons.

Sure the Sun Belt sold their souls to get games on ESPN, but that didn't help them get better bowl ties. As bad as C-USA's bowl ties are, they are still better than the Sun Belt's bowl ties.

Basketball isn't close at all. C-USA is much better. Most years C-USA enjoys a higher NCAA Tournament seed than the Sun Belt. I can't actually remember a year when the Sun Belt had a higher seed. Also, C-USA has actually had a few first round wins. When was the last time a Sun Belt team won an NCAA tournament game?

Baseball is not a major sport.

And overall, C-USA programs just have bigger budgets, which allows a fair amount of our programs to poach from Sun Belt programs. I know North Texas regularly poaches from Sun Belt members.

Objectively looking at the two conferences, there is no debate. Although it is really a tallest midget contest, C-USA is clearly the better overall conference.

Regarding your basketball question the Sun Belts last tournament win was 2016.

And if yall had baseball and were any good at it you'd probably consider it to be pretty important. Its arguably the 3rd biggest NCAA sport.

(05-30-2020 12:53 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(05-30-2020 11:56 AM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(05-30-2020 11:26 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-30-2020 07:09 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  CUSA fans clinging to the old days when they were the better conference. Those days are over.

Basketball - only thing that matters are tournament credits, Both are a one bid league.

Football - SBC higher ranked conference and therefore more CFB revenue three of the last four years. Better TV contract, App had 8 nationally televised games last year, you’d have to add 3-4 CUSA teams to reach that numbers.

Baseball - SBC has always been better

Your televised football games claim is without merit. I believe you get to 8 with the championship game and bowl game. That means 6 regular season games? Rice had 5 nationally televised games in 2019 consisting of Army, Baylor, Texas, Wake Forest and North Texas. Our champions, Florida Atlantic, played Ohio State, UCF, Charlotte, Marshall, Southern Miss, UAB, and SMU on national television. That’s 7 for FAU and 5 for Rice.

The hyperbolic baseball claim is equally ridiculous, but I don’t want to take the time to look up the facts. Congratulations on adding Coastal Carolina, though. Solid baseball program.

Well, we're picking up Saturday ESPN while you play on CBSNBC Sports or whatever it's called that no one watches.

Now I'm mildly interested. Let's see what wikipedia has to say
14 Sun Belt home games televised on ESPN / 2/ U, counting the CCG.
(Appalachian State was on ESPN twice (CCG), ESPN-2 twice (@SC) and ESPN-U 3 times).

CUSA? 13 games on CBS-SN, 9 games on NFL Network, 14 games on Stadium. (Some number of the CBS-SN and Stadium games were also on Facebook, if anyone cares.) That's 22 nationally televised games, plus whatever you consider Stadium.

So CUSA has more nationally televised games, but the Sun Belt games are on ESPN networks.

For the question at hand, CUSA vs Sun Belt, 4 of Rice's 5 national TV appearances were non-conference. Wake Forest and Baylor and Texas and Army are playing Rice because it's Rice (SWC pedigree, academic halo), not because they're CUSA over Sun Belt.

CUSA's big talking point over the Sun Belt at this point is that CUSA has some programs with some pedigree (Rice, UTEP, Southern Miss, Marshall), while Sun Belt has a bunch of former FCS national champions (App State, Georgia Southern, ULM) What does that get you in 2020?

I'm almost 60 and work in the media (for a publication covering sports, business and politics). I talk to lots of folks who are very knowledgeable about college athletics and academia in general — people who do not have an agenda and who not trash talk like some on this board. And if I were to poll, say, 100 of these type people with this question: Which is the more prestigious conference based on a combination of football, men's basketball, baseball, all other sports, academic budgets, athletic department budgets, endowments, academic credibility and attractiveness of campus locations? ... all 100 would say C-USA.

So to answer your question: What does that get you in 2020? Nothing. Other than C-USA has a much better image than the Belt with most folks who know this stuff and who don't post on message boards. And I type that having noted previously on this board that I hugely respect what the Sun Belt has done in reinventing itself and in, particularly, in making strong progress in football.

I'm an MTSU graduate and would be the first to admit I might be a bit biased. True, C-USA has its flaws. But these people I talk to know their stuff and they shoot straight. They overwhelmingly place C-USA over the Sun Belt.

(05-30-2020 04:02 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(05-30-2020 03:06 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Over the past 3 seasons, only 4 Sun Belt programs have winning records in football (App State, Troy, Arkansas State, & ULL). That means only 40% of the Sun Belt has played winning football over the last 3 seasons.

C-USA has 7 programs with winning records over the last 3 season (UAB, FAU, LA Tech, Marshall, FIU, Southern Miss, & North Texas). That means 50% of all C-USA programs have posted winning records over the past 3 seasons.

Perfect example of small sample size leading to statistically insignificant differences.

No. The stats don't lie. And, if you extend the "sample size" out over 4 years, the numbers just get worse for the Sun Belt, and the gap grows in C-USA's favor.

Over the past 4 seasons, the Sun Belt still only has 4 programs with winning records in football (App State, Troy, Arkansas State, & ULL). That means the same 40% of the Sun Belt has played winning football over the last 4 seasons.

But C-USA has 9 programs with winning records over the last 4 season (UAB, FAU, LA Tech, Marshall, FIU, Southern Miss, North Texas, WKU, & MTSU). That means 64% of all C-USA programs have posted winning records over the past 4 seasons.

I'm not injecting my opinions or biases into this. These are just how the "W's" and "L's" stack up. At some point people just have to accept the fact that overall, C-USA is still better than the Sun Belt. The proof is in the numbers.

(05-30-2020 03:06 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Baseball is not a major sport.

Thanks for coming over to help, Joe. But you are wrong here. Baseball is a big deal in the south. You can’t get that because you have never experienced 5000 fans for a baseball game with Texas A&M, Houston, Louisiana, or Southern Miss.

(05-30-2020 06:35 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(05-30-2020 03:06 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  Baseball is not a major sport.

Thanks for coming over to help, Joe. But you are wrong here. Baseball is a big deal in the south. You can’t get that because you have never experienced 5000 fans for a baseball game with Texas A&M, Houston, Louisiana, or Southern Miss.

I know baseball is a big sport, but as long as it is not a mandated by most of the FBS conferences (C-USA, ACC, AAC, Big 10, Big 12, MAC, MWC, & PAC 12, all have members that don't sponsor baseball), it will remain a secondary sport. Probably the biggest secondary sport in college athletics, but still a secondary sport.

Here's an assessment of CUSA and Sun Belt football over the past 3-4 years that involves a bit less cherry-picking:

CUSA
2017-2019: 252 W, 280 L (0.474); Avg Sagarin = 56.88
2016-2019: 329 W, 368 L (0.472); Avg Sagarin = 57.03

Sun Belt
2017-2019: 196 W, 204 L (0.490); Avg Sagarin = 58.37
2016-2019: 262 W, 276 L (0.487); Avg Saragin = 58.56

So if one considers 3-4 seasons an adequate sample size, the Sun Belt is the slightly taller midget in football strength.