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2017 2018 2019 2020 AVG.
UCF 1 2 1 5 2.25 Still the gold standard.
UC 3 1 7 1 3.00 2021 #1 so far
MEM 2 6 2 3 3.25 Can Silverfield keep it going?
UH 4 5 4 7 5.00 Can The Hog bring them up?
USF 5 3 5 9 5.50 Fans get what they deserve
SMU 7 8 3 6 6.00 The pony Excess is history.
TULA 11 4 8 2 6.25 Fritz has done a good enough job that one more year he could bolt.
ECU 6 9 6 4 6.25 A sleeping giant?
TEM 12 7 9 8 9.00 Is Temple returning to glorious past?
TULS 8 10 10 10 9.50 Out performing the recruit rankings.
NAV 9 12 12 12 11.25 Disregard rankings!

Interesting statistics and commentary.

I will only add, that I think Tulsa's days in this conference may be numbered. As the smallest enrollment private school in FBS, I imagine they could be one of the fatalities of the new economic realities of 2020. To me, small private schools closing (Urbana) is simply the first wave of change.

(05-06-2020 09:12 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Interesting statistics and commentary.

I will only add, that I think Tulsa's days in this conference may be numbered. As the smallest enrollment private school in FBS, I imagine they could be one of the fatalities of the new economic realities of 2020. To me, small private schools closing (Urbana) is simply the first wave of change.

I don't know if you're suggesting that Tulsa would be closing...but they are NOTHING like Urbana's situation. Tulsa's endowment is up over a Billion Dollars and only a 40% admission rate...they may be downsizing, but they're not going away entirely. Hell, I could see them dropping their admissions requirements slightly and they'd be golden.

I think the schools that will drop off the map completely are schools like MSJ, Lourdes, Malone, Defiance, Bluffton, etc. who have next to no cash reserves, invested gifts, or enrollment outside of athletics.

(05-06-2020 09:21 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 09:12 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Interesting statistics and commentary.

I will only add, that I think Tulsa's days in this conference may be numbered. As the smallest enrollment private school in FBS, I imagine they could be one of the fatalities of the new economic realities of 2020. To me, small private schools closing (Urbana) is simply the first wave of change.

I don't know if you're suggesting that Tulsa would be closing...but they are NOTHING like Urbana's situation. Tulsa's endowment is up over a Billion Dollars and only a 40% admission rate...they may be downsizing, but they're not going away entirely. Hell, I could see them dropping their admissions requirements slightly and they'd be golden.

I think the schools that will drop off the map completely are schools like MSJ, Lourdes, Malone, Defiance, Bluffton, etc. who have next to no cash reserves, invested gifts, or enrollment outside of athletics.

Yes, we agree on your points and my post was a bit ambiguous--they're an excellent school with good resources. My point was with regard to budgetary resources for higher education and the continued allocation of funds to compete in FBS football and basketball while academic needs become more pressing. No idea what they draw for football but their basketball arena is relatively small and often mostly empty. Will they continue to subsidize these programs sufficiently to compete at the top of the G5, or drop back? My guess is those conversations are going on across the MAC these days too.

(05-06-2020 10:27 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 09:21 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 09:12 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Interesting statistics and commentary.

I will only add, that I think Tulsa's days in this conference may be numbered. As the smallest enrollment private school in FBS, I imagine they could be one of the fatalities of the new economic realities of 2020. To me, small private schools closing (Urbana) is simply the first wave of change.

I don't know if you're suggesting that Tulsa would be closing...but they are NOTHING like Urbana's situation. Tulsa's endowment is up over a Billion Dollars and only a 40% admission rate...they may be downsizing, but they're not going away entirely. Hell, I could see them dropping their admissions requirements slightly and they'd be golden.

I think the schools that will drop off the map completely are schools like MSJ, Lourdes, Malone, Defiance, Bluffton, etc. who have next to no cash reserves, invested gifts, or enrollment outside of athletics.

Yes, we agree on your points and my post was a bit ambiguous--they're an excellent school with good resources. My point was with regard to budgetary resources for higher education and the continued allocation of funds to compete in FBS football and basketball while academic needs become more pressing. No idea what they draw for football but their basketball arena is relatively small and often mostly empty. Will they continue to subsidize these programs sufficiently to compete at the top of the G5, or drop back? My guess is those conversations are going on across the MAC these days too.

I think Tulsa is in the AAC for awhile...they've got enough stored away to handle taking a hit.

The MAC absolutely should begin a discussion about moving down though...they do not have the luxuries that Tulsa does of a low admission rate and large endowment. Most will be cutting athletics expenses by 15-20% for this coming year, which would put all but two schools below $20M in total budgeted for FY21. That would put them middle of the pack in FCS...just makes no sense to stay up, as moving down would allow them to drop some additional dead weight and actually compete for something other than a mid-December football game in a retirement community.

If that happens with the MAC, the B10 will practically fall all over itself rushing to vote an exemption to FBS scheduling to continue feasting on those MAC schools for pre-conference games. If not, a MAC move to FCS may mean the B10 will have to find some worthy opponents for early September dates. And if all that played out, UC would be well positioned to wheel and deal for some interesting pre-conference games in the coming years.

(05-06-2020 12:44 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  If that happens with the MAC, the B10 will practically fall all over itself rushing to vote an exemption to FBS scheduling to continue feasting on those MAC schools for pre-conference games. If not, a MAC move to FCS may mean the B10 will have to find some worthy opponents for early September dates. And if all that played out, UC would be well positioned to wheel and deal for some interesting pre-conference games in the coming years.

The Big Ten West generally schedules MVC schools.

Is there much of a difference between MVC schools and MAC schools? Institutionally, no. In basketball, the MVC is indisputably better.

In football? 10 years ago there was a difference. Since 2011, the MAC is 4-4 against the MVC. In the last 4 years, the MAC is 45-116 (27.9%) against other FBS schools. The MVC is 8-24 (25%) against FBS, including 3 P5 wins (one was over #13 Iowa, who ended the season 8-5 with 2 wins over ranked teams). Not really that much different, despite the higher resources.

You just don’t see conferences kicking schools out very often without realignment & a new league forming. This is periodically mentioned & I haven’t done any research (it’s probably happened at one time or another) but can’t think of a time a school was kicked out of a conference?

Schools almost always seem to leave on their own for what they view as a better opportunity.

Not calling anyone out or anything. It just doesn’t seem to be a thing that really happens.

(05-06-2020 08:22 PM)cincy11 Wrote:  You just don’t see conferences kicking schools out very often without realignment & a new league forming. This is periodically mentioned & I haven’t done any research (it’s probably happened at one time or another) but can’t think of a time a school was kicked out of a conference?

Schools almost always seem to leave on their own for what they view as a better opportunity.

Not calling anyone out or anything. It just doesn’t seem to be a thing that really happens.

Temple booted by BigEast and UMass by MAC

(05-06-2020 05:30 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 12:44 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  If that happens with the MAC, the B10 will practically fall all over itself rushing to vote an exemption to FBS scheduling to continue feasting on those MAC schools for pre-conference games. If not, a MAC move to FCS may mean the B10 will have to find some worthy opponents for early September dates. And if all that played out, UC would be well positioned to wheel and deal for some interesting pre-conference games in the coming years.

The Big Ten West generally schedules MVC schools.

Is there much of a difference between MVC schools and MAC schools? Institutionally, no. In basketball, the MVC is indisputably better.

In football? 10 years ago there was a difference. Since 2011, the MAC is 4-4 against the MVC. In the last 4 years, the MAC is 45-116 (27.9%) against other FBS schools. The MVC is 8-24 (25%) against FBS, including 3 P5 wins (one was over #13 Iowa, who ended the season 8-5 with 2 wins over ranked teams). Not really that much different, despite the higher resources.

Yep, which is why more and more people are clammoring for them to take active steps to realign their institutional focus. I look at my current employer...they have a $56M shortfall they're going to need to make up, how are they going to be able to continuously justify a department that loses $20M+ every year to just house a bunch of losers.

(05-07-2020 08:10 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 05:30 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(05-06-2020 12:44 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  If that happens with the MAC, the B10 will practically fall all over itself rushing to vote an exemption to FBS scheduling to continue feasting on those MAC schools for pre-conference games. If not, a MAC move to FCS may mean the B10 will have to find some worthy opponents for early September dates. And if all that played out, UC would be well positioned to wheel and deal for some interesting pre-conference games in the coming years.

The Big Ten West generally schedules MVC schools.

Is there much of a difference between MVC schools and MAC schools? Institutionally, no. In basketball, the MVC is indisputably better.

In football? 10 years ago there was a difference. Since 2011, the MAC is 4-4 against the MVC. In the last 4 years, the MAC is 45-116 (27.9%) against other FBS schools. The MVC is 8-24 (25%) against FBS, including 3 P5 wins (one was over #13 Iowa, who ended the season 8-5 with 2 wins over ranked teams). Not really that much different, despite the higher resources.

Yep, which is why more and more people are clammoring for them to take active steps to realign their institutional focus. I look at my current employer...they have a $56M shortfall they're going to need to make up, how are they going to be able to continuously justify a department that loses $20M+ every year to just house a bunch of losers.

That's funny... your employer has higher budgets and salaries than mine does... but my employer has been anticipating a loss of revenue from the state for awhile so they've been running an operating surplus of that size for the past two years. Using it to pay down debt and add to reserves. Their endowment has also doubled in size in the past 4 years.