(02-03-2020 08:54 PM)VCE Wrote:  Cincinnati looks like some P6 schools in success on the court, field and academics/endowment. They sit on the border between football crazy Ohio and basketball crazy Kentucky and (almost) Indiana.

They're in a basketball hotspot, but there are enough fans to support the three Cincy area programs plus however many KY and Louisville fans are across the river. I'd guess they are a strong 2nd in the area to OSU in football, ahead of even ND who has great ties there.

My perception is that Cincy is far less of a commuter school than Houston, Temple, UCF/USF and other city/directional schools. There's a reason they were invited to the BE 15 years ago. I have friends who are from there and who have graduated from there, maybe i'm biased.

BYU seems like a good fit in the P6, at least athletically. I think the nationwide fanbase is overrated; they aren't ND. Additionally, the conservative nature may keep them out of the club, but BYU students are generally exceptional and bright in both intellect and life achievements.

CSU has had some success in football- I remember them being in Sports Illustrated's top 25 polls back in the 80s/90s once in a while, but they have a lot less pull in CO than many realize. I'd say close to half of the CSU grads i know grew up as CU fans, and many have remained so.

U?F is tough to judge. At some point, the two may become too big to ignore. I know that the academics at both are improving, but there aren't a ton of their alums on Wall Street, big law, big accounting, elite government, etc.

I've worked with, for and managed people from the above schools, excepting the FL twins. I hope that dynamic changes for them, but until it does, I don't see Big State snobs inviting them into the group.

UCF hasn't been a commuter school since at least the 90's. The vast majority of undergrads live on campus or in student apartments directly off campus.

(02-13-2020 03:45 PM)schmolik Wrote:  First we have to assume there will be a P5 10 years from now and the Big 12 is still a P5 and Texas and/or Oklahoma haven't taken invitations to one of the other conferences.

Assuming the Big 12 is intact, Central Florida looks good. Maybe the Big 12 goes with both Florida schools, UCF/USF.

IMO the only reason they haven't yet is there's no threat of another conference expanding yet. Probably doesn't hurt that OU made the CFP.

(02-13-2020 04:36 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-03-2020 08:54 PM)VCE Wrote:  Cincinnati looks like some P6 schools in success on the court, field and academics/endowment. They sit on the border between football crazy Ohio and basketball crazy Kentucky and (almost) Indiana.

They're in a basketball hotspot, but there are enough fans to support the three Cincy area programs plus however many KY and Louisville fans are across the river. I'd guess they are a strong 2nd in the area to OSU in football, ahead of even ND who has great ties there.

My perception is that Cincy is far less of a commuter school than Houston, Temple, UCF/USF and other city/directional schools. There's a reason they were invited to the BE 15 years ago. I have friends who are from there and who have graduated from there, maybe i'm biased.

BYU seems like a good fit in the P6, at least athletically. I think the nationwide fanbase is overrated; they aren't ND. Additionally, the conservative nature may keep them out of the club, but BYU students are generally exceptional and bright in both intellect and life achievements.

CSU has had some success in football- I remember them being in Sports Illustrated's top 25 polls back in the 80s/90s once in a while, but they have a lot less pull in CO than many realize. I'd say close to half of the CSU grads i know grew up as CU fans, and many have remained so.

U?F is tough to judge. At some point, the two may become too big to ignore. I know that the academics at both are improving, but there aren't a ton of their alums on Wall Street, big law, big accounting, elite government, etc.

I've worked with, for and managed people from the above schools, excepting the FL twins. I hope that dynamic changes for them, but until it does, I don't see Big State snobs inviting them into the group.

UCF hasn't been a commuter school since at least the 90's. The vast majority of undergrads live on campus or in student apartments directly off campus.

There are probably more students living on campus at UCF than at all but a small handful of P5 schools

None of this mattters because the P5 won't be adding anyone. It will become the P4 and some of the stalwarts in the Big 12 will lose their place at the table. The money is getting too big and like or not no aac schools bring that kind of value to a p5 league.

(02-14-2020 10:22 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 04:36 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-03-2020 08:54 PM)VCE Wrote:  Cincinnati looks like some P6 schools in success on the court, field and academics/endowment. They sit on the border between football crazy Ohio and basketball crazy Kentucky and (almost) Indiana.

They're in a basketball hotspot, but there are enough fans to support the three Cincy area programs plus however many KY and Louisville fans are across the river. I'd guess they are a strong 2nd in the area to OSU in football, ahead of even ND who has great ties there.

My perception is that Cincy is far less of a commuter school than Houston, Temple, UCF/USF and other city/directional schools. There's a reason they were invited to the BE 15 years ago. I have friends who are from there and who have graduated from there, maybe i'm biased.

BYU seems like a good fit in the P6, at least athletically. I think the nationwide fanbase is overrated; they aren't ND. Additionally, the conservative nature may keep them out of the club, but BYU students are generally exceptional and bright in both intellect and life achievements.

CSU has had some success in football- I remember them being in Sports Illustrated's top 25 polls back in the 80s/90s once in a while, but they have a lot less pull in CO than many realize. I'd say close to half of the CSU grads i know grew up as CU fans, and many have remained so.

U?F is tough to judge. At some point, the two may become too big to ignore. I know that the academics at both are improving, but there aren't a ton of their alums on Wall Street, big law, big accounting, elite government, etc.

I've worked with, for and managed people from the above schools, excepting the FL twins. I hope that dynamic changes for them, but until it does, I don't see Big State snobs inviting them into the group.

UCF hasn't been a commuter school since at least the 90's. The vast majority of undergrads live on campus or in student apartments directly off campus.

There are probably more students living on campus at UCF than at all but a small handful of P5 schools

Not my twitter but someone pulled the acceptance and on campus percentages for the top Florida schools.
https://twitter.com/AucfV/status/1228300...f.82015%2F

(02-17-2020 01:04 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 10:22 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 04:36 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-03-2020 08:54 PM)VCE Wrote:  Cincinnati looks like some P6 schools in success on the court, field and academics/endowment. They sit on the border between football crazy Ohio and basketball crazy Kentucky and (almost) Indiana.

They're in a basketball hotspot, but there are enough fans to support the three Cincy area programs plus however many KY and Louisville fans are across the river. I'd guess they are a strong 2nd in the area to OSU in football, ahead of even ND who has great ties there.

My perception is that Cincy is far less of a commuter school than Houston, Temple, UCF/USF and other city/directional schools. There's a reason they were invited to the BE 15 years ago. I have friends who are from there and who have graduated from there, maybe i'm biased.

BYU seems like a good fit in the P6, at least athletically. I think the nationwide fanbase is overrated; they aren't ND. Additionally, the conservative nature may keep them out of the club, but BYU students are generally exceptional and bright in both intellect and life achievements.

CSU has had some success in football- I remember them being in Sports Illustrated's top 25 polls back in the 80s/90s once in a while, but they have a lot less pull in CO than many realize. I'd say close to half of the CSU grads i know grew up as CU fans, and many have remained so.

U?F is tough to judge. At some point, the two may become too big to ignore. I know that the academics at both are improving, but there aren't a ton of their alums on Wall Street, big law, big accounting, elite government, etc.

I've worked with, for and managed people from the above schools, excepting the FL twins. I hope that dynamic changes for them, but until it does, I don't see Big State snobs inviting them into the group.

UCF hasn't been a commuter school since at least the 90's. The vast majority of undergrads live on campus or in student apartments directly off campus.

There are probably more students living on campus at UCF than at all but a small handful of P5 schools

Not my twitter but someone pulled the acceptance and on campus percentages for the top Florida schools.
https://twitter.com/AucfV/status/1228300...f.82015%2F

Thank you. That is a great link.

My only connection to UCF is having a sibling that lives in Orlando, but anyone that's even driven near campus can tell that its a gigantic school. Many of the commuter rule comments are just a relic of the 70s and 80s.

(02-17-2020 01:04 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-14-2020 10:22 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(02-13-2020 04:36 PM)MidknightWhiskey Wrote:  

(02-03-2020 08:54 PM)VCE Wrote:  Cincinnati looks like some P6 schools in success on the court, field and academics/endowment. They sit on the border between football crazy Ohio and basketball crazy Kentucky and (almost) Indiana.

They're in a basketball hotspot, but there are enough fans to support the three Cincy area programs plus however many KY and Louisville fans are across the river. I'd guess they are a strong 2nd in the area to OSU in football, ahead of even ND who has great ties there.

My perception is that Cincy is far less of a commuter school than Houston, Temple, UCF/USF and other city/directional schools. There's a reason they were invited to the BE 15 years ago. I have friends who are from there and who have graduated from there, maybe i'm biased.

BYU seems like a good fit in the P6, at least athletically. I think the nationwide fanbase is overrated; they aren't ND. Additionally, the conservative nature may keep them out of the club, but BYU students are generally exceptional and bright in both intellect and life achievements.

CSU has had some success in football- I remember them being in Sports Illustrated's top 25 polls back in the 80s/90s once in a while, but they have a lot less pull in CO than many realize. I'd say close to half of the CSU grads i know grew up as CU fans, and many have remained so.

U?F is tough to judge. At some point, the two may become too big to ignore. I know that the academics at both are improving, but there aren't a ton of their alums on Wall Street, big law, big accounting, elite government, etc.

I've worked with, for and managed people from the above schools, excepting the FL twins. I hope that dynamic changes for them, but until it does, I don't see Big State snobs inviting them into the group.

UCF hasn't been a commuter school since at least the 90's. The vast majority of undergrads live on campus or in student apartments directly off campus.

There are probably more students living on campus at UCF than at all but a small handful of P5 schools

Not my twitter but someone pulled the acceptance and on campus percentages for the top Florida schools.
https://twitter.com/AucfV/status/1228300...f.82015%2F

Looking at it in the last couple of months, I was surprised how difficult USF, UCF and FSU were to get into. Knew Florida was difficult.

Out of state tuition is lower at those Florida schools than most of the other southeast states.

That's because those numbers are so laughably fudged.

(02-13-2020 03:19 PM)GreenBaron Wrote:  Stony Brook student here.

You would think with all our stats (AAU Research affiliation, nearly 30,000 students, academic profile similar or even better to some B1G schools) that would we be P5 by now. But SUNY has royally screwed up our growth of athletics in our university. The fanbase hates SUNY. Especially when Gov. Cuomo vetoed a $22M stadium expansion that would have given us an FBS-level stadium. I’ve personally never forgiven the man since.

Some posts expressed concern with “the smaller SUNYs”, and I say, to hell with them! I would jump with joy if they started shutting down because Stony Brook fans see their existence as a drain on resources, taking state money that we could be using instead. I’m talking dumps like Oswego, Oneonta, Fredonia, etc. SUNY has 64 schools but only 4 are relevant, the ones mentioned in this thread. Everything else is either a community college or a D3 school with no academic prestige either.

I do think naming might have played a role. If Buffalo/Stony Brook was New York/New York State – whichever one - maybe it would make it analogous to Michigan/Michigan State.

Binghamton will never move up in conference. Their athletic program is most known for a basketball scandal and their students are angry at the school for receiving a $60M donation for baseball. Albany has decent sports but it’s academics are easily seen as the worst of the 4 SUNYs.

Thank you for this. I didn't realize Stony tried to get its football infrastructure upgrades through different channels. Reading up on it, what Stony Brook tried doing for the stadium and indoor facility was like what Colorado State pulled for their upgrades. The fundraising fell short, so they went to the government with their hands out. Money that was supposed to go toward building academic infrastructure, Stony wanted appropriated for athletics.

Did you expect a guy sitting in Albany, where the campus that would love to have Buffalo and Stony's prestige, to just let that happen for Stony Brook? Let alone the optics of taking academic infrastructure and converting it for football? The fundraising campaign for Stony Brook was supposed to run until 2020, right? Yet, you had them already shifting gears in 2015 taking different money to do the work the campaign money was supposed to do?

Politics is politics, and Cuomo probably is a giant hypocrite, but, what Stony was trying to pull seems like low-hanging fruit if there ever was, imo.

Stony Brook? I had to look up where the hell it was. Long Island.

Fordham should play in Yankee like the days of yore. That’d be NYC’s team.

(02-19-2020 01:19 AM)esayem Wrote:  Stony Brook? I had to look up where the hell it was. Long Island.

Fordham should play in Yankee like the days of yore. That’d be NYC’s team.

You do realize that the Patriot League is very similar to the Ivy League,right?? Basically what you are saying is that if Harvard played in the Green Monster, they would be Boston's team.

Stony Brook actually makes more sense being NYC's team because they are a public school that really does care about football, unlike Fordham.

For most state schools, student enrollment is kind of like football attendance/stadium capacity: For a long time, you are more interested in warm bodies to drive the tuition money up, just as with football you want more and more and more people attending, and thus the emphasis is on making the stadium bigger.

But at a certain point, you realize that quantity is sufficient, and then you shift your focus more to quality, so you care less about more warm bodies and more about their SAT/ACT scores, GPA, etc just like in football instead of adding 10,000 more cheap bleacher seats you upgrade a lot of the existing seats to PSL's, mini-suites, etc. You start by converting the bleachers into chairbacks, LOL.

(02-19-2020 03:58 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:19 AM)esayem Wrote:  Stony Brook? I had to look up where the hell it was. Long Island.

Fordham should play in Yankee like the days of yore. That’d be NYC’s team.

You do realize that the Patriot League is very similar to the Ivy League,right?? Basically what you are saying is that if Harvard played in the Green Monster, they would be Boston's team.

Stony Brook actually makes more sense being NYC's team because they are a public school that really does care about football, unlike Fordham.

...did...you just call Fenway the "Green Monster" there? You know that's just a wall, right?

(02-19-2020 08:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  For most state schools, student enrollment is kind of like football attendance/stadium capacity: For a long time, you are more interested in warm bodies to drive the tuition money up, just as with football you want more and more and more people attending, and thus the emphasis is on making the stadium bigger.

But at a certain point, you realize that quantity is sufficient, and then you shift your focus more to quality, so you care less about more warm bodies and more about their SAT/ACT scores, GPA, etc just like in football instead of adding 10,000 more cheap bleacher seats you upgrade a lot of the existing seats to PSL's, mini-suites, etc. You start by converting the bleachers into chairbacks, LOL.

I'm very interested to see how far A&M and UCF take their enrollment pushes. Both are near 70k right now. Who is going to be the first to 80 or 100k?

(02-19-2020 12:51 PM)e-parade Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:58 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 01:19 AM)esayem Wrote:  Stony Brook? I had to look up where the hell it was. Long Island.

Fordham should play in Yankee like the days of yore. That’d be NYC’s team.

You do realize that the Patriot League is very similar to the Ivy League,right?? Basically what you are saying is that if Harvard played in the Green Monster, they would be Boston's team.

Stony Brook actually makes more sense being NYC's team because they are a public school that really does care about football, unlike Fordham.

...did...you just call Fenway the "Green Monster" there? You know that's just a wall, right?

I couldn't think of Fenway's proper name at the time. My apologies.