(05-16-2019 09:06 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  UCF claiming that title is one of the best things in college football the last ten years. Fantastic entertainment.

Yup, and every rational person realizes they would not be undefeated playing a big boy schedule. Sure they beat Auburn...but try that multiple times in a real conference

(05-16-2019 12:31 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 09:06 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  UCF claiming that title is one of the best things in college football the last ten years. Fantastic entertainment.

Yup, and every rational person realizes they would not be undefeated playing a big boy schedule. Sure they beat Auburn...but try that multiple times in a real conference

If every sport had a playoff system that was 99.9% certain to produce a champion that was indisputably the "best" team, we would all lose interest as soon as the playoff was over. Then what would everybody talk about during the long off-season? Controversy about who is the "best" is crucial for all sports.

(05-16-2019 01:42 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 12:31 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 09:06 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  UCF claiming that title is one of the best things in college football the last ten years. Fantastic entertainment.

Yup, and every rational person realizes they would not be undefeated playing a big boy schedule. Sure they beat Auburn...but try that multiple times in a real conference

If every sport had a playoff system that was 99.9% certain to produce a champion that was indisputably the "best" team, we would all lose interest as soon as the playoff was over. Then what would everybody talk about during the long off-season? Controversy about who is the "best" is crucial for all sports.

Not sure that's true. The NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB have playoff systems that typically produce indisputable "bests" and yet there's always plenty to talk about anyway.

The CFP is no different, and it's also pretty clear that it produces a "best" team that is very comparable to the best teams produced by the pro league playoffs, the NCAA tournament, etc.

(05-15-2019 10:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The Cubs made more money than most any team and yet they still couldnt win crap.

If your honest with yourself—you’d admit that recruiting and team strength would largely level out if every league had legit access to the playoff. That’s also a near universal the truth.

Can't say I agree with that.

The Arizonas, South Carolinas, NC States, and Iowas of the Power 5 just aren't recruiting at the same level as the Alabamas and Ohio States and UGAs in spite of being in a Power 5 conference.

The CFP is quite a bit different. Even Cleveland Browns fans can say at the beginning of the season that they have a chance to go to the playoffs.

(05-16-2019 03:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The CFP is quite a bit different. Even Cleveland Browns fans can say at the beginning of the season that they have a chance to go to the playoffs.

The Cleveland Browns and say Miami of Ohio have essentially the same barrier to making the playoffs: They might not be good enough compared to other teams.

I mean, think about the last 5 seasons. Why have the Browns not made the playoffs? Other teams were better and so got the playoff spots each of those years.

The same is true with Miami of Ohio, they too did not make the CFP playoffs the last five years because other teams were better and so got the playoff spots.

The funny thing about the discussion of the validity of the CFP system on this board is that objection to the CFP comes overwhelmingly from fans of G5 schools, even though their schools obviously did not belong in the playoffs. The schools that really did have a reasonable case for being in the playoffs - like Ohio State in 2017, or Baylor in 2014 - they basically never object, aren't heard from at all around here.

if the CFP is "unfair" to anyone, it's to the teams that end up 5th or 6th in the final CFP rankings, and have a plausible case that they might be better than the #4 team that did get in. Those teams are always P5, not G5, teams.

(05-16-2019 03:48 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  

(05-15-2019 10:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  The Cubs made more money than most any team and yet they still couldnt win crap.

If your honest with yourself—you’d admit that recruiting and team strength would largely level out if every league had legit access to the playoff. That’s also a near universal the truth.

Can't say I agree with that.

The Arizonas, South Carolinas, NC States, and Iowas of the Power 5 just aren't recruiting at the same level as the Alabamas and Ohio States and UGAs in spite of being in a Power 5 conference.

Correct. But they have a shot to put together a team that can make a run at the conference every so often. Every so often a Kansas or Baylor wins the Big12. They just arent going to be as consistent.

(05-16-2019 04:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  The funny thing about the discussion of the validity of the CFP system on this board is that objection to the CFP comes overwhelmingly from fans of G5 schools, even though their schools obviously did not belong in the playoffs. The schools that really did have a reasonable case for being in the playoffs - like Ohio State in 2017, or Baylor in 2014 - they basically never object, aren't heard from at all around here.

This is true. And it will alaways be true. The P5 conferences have learned nothing from history, and nothing by watching the behavior of their children. The fact is that appeasement never works. The P5 (and ESPN) should never have caved to whatever pressure they felt to appease the G5 by giving them a guaranteed spot in the NY6 whether they deserve it or not. The G5 wasn't appeased by this gift. All it did was embolden them to believe that eventually their whining will give them a guaranteed spot in an expanded playoff.

And at this point, it's not unreasonable for the G5 to feel that way. Once an appeaser.....

So until the P5 grows a spine and stops caving into the whining, we will continue to hear more of it.

(05-16-2019 04:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 03:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The CFP is quite a bit different. Even Cleveland Browns fans can say at the beginning of the season that they have a chance to go to the playoffs.

The Cleveland Browns and say Miami of Ohio have essentially the same barrier to making the playoffs: They might not be good enough compared to other teams.

I mean, think about the last 5 seasons. Why have the Browns not made the playoffs? Other teams were better and so got the playoff spots each of those years.

The same is true with Miami of Ohio, they too did not make the CFP playoffs the last five years because other teams were better and so got the playoff spots.

The funny thing about the discussion of the validity of the CFP system on this board is that objection to the CFP comes overwhelmingly from fans of G5 schools, even though their schools obviously did not belong in the playoffs. The schools that really did have a reasonable case for being in the playoffs - like Ohio State in 2017, or Baylor in 2014 - they basically never object, aren't heard from at all around here.

if the CFP is "unfair" to anyone, it's to the teams that end up 5th or 6th in the final CFP rankings, and have a plausible case that they might be better than the #4 team that did get in. Those teams are always P5, not G5, teams.

You can't seriously claim that Cleveland and Miami have the same barriers. They are not close. Miami can go undefeated and not be in the playoffs. Cleveland could get in with a 10-6 record or even worse. AND Cleveland gets to play some of their games against good teams at home.

Not to mention that if the NFL was as chintzie in playoff spots as CFB is, their playoffs would consist of one team. AND, Cleveland can get into the playoffs based on their record rather than depending on a vote.

(05-16-2019 09:36 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 04:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 03:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The CFP is quite a bit different. Even Cleveland Browns fans can say at the beginning of the season that they have a chance to go to the playoffs.

The Cleveland Browns and say Miami of Ohio have essentially the same barrier to making the playoffs: They might not be good enough compared to other teams.

I mean, think about the last 5 seasons. Why have the Browns not made the playoffs? Other teams were better and so got the playoff spots each of those years.

The same is true with Miami of Ohio, they too did not make the CFP playoffs the last five years because other teams were better and so got the playoff spots.

The funny thing about the discussion of the validity of the CFP system on this board is that objection to the CFP comes overwhelmingly from fans of G5 schools, even though their schools obviously did not belong in the playoffs. The schools that really did have a reasonable case for being in the playoffs - like Ohio State in 2017, or Baylor in 2014 - they basically never object, aren't heard from at all around here.

if the CFP is "unfair" to anyone, it's to the teams that end up 5th or 6th in the final CFP rankings, and have a plausible case that they might be better than the #4 team that did get in. Those teams are always P5, not G5, teams.

You can't seriously claim that Cleveland and Miami have the same barriers. They are not close. Miami can go undefeated and not be in the playoffs. Cleveland could get in with a 10-6 record or even worse. AND Cleveland gets to play some of their games against good teams at home.

Not to mention that if the NFL was as chintzie in playoff spots as CFB is, their playoffs would consist of one team. AND, Cleveland can get into the playoffs based on their record rather than depending on a vote.

I'm talking about practical realities. Miami of Ohio will never miss the playoffs because they deserved to be in them but were denied. So it is pointless for MoH fans to complain about the system. The same is true of the Browns.

As for the size of the playoffs, yes, that is a barrier to MoH. The CFP playoffs are very exclusive, only 1 in 33 FBS teams gets in. But, that makes them extremely hard for *anyone* to get in, regardless of conference.

E.g., Ohio State has as big a name as anyone, has won the B1G title the last two years while losing just three games over those two seasons, a combined record of 25-3, and has missed the playoffs both times.

It's hard for everybody.

For the record, we did establish that the OP was bogus and that nothing has changed by either the NCAA or Colley, right?

(05-17-2019 10:38 AM)ken d Wrote:  For the record, we did establish that the OP was bogus and that nothing has changed by either the NCAA or Colley, right?

Seriously? Of course nothing has changed with Colley's final 2017 rankings. UCF still finished first in that.

Of course, the idea that finishing first in one computer like CM means a school can proclaim a national title is obviously and ridiculously bogus, and remains so too.

(05-17-2019 10:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 10:38 AM)ken d Wrote:  For the record, we did establish that the OP was bogus and that nothing has changed by either the NCAA or Colley, right?

Seriously? Of course nothing has changed with Colley's final 2017 rankings. UCF still finished first in that.

Of course, the idea that finishing first in one computer like CM means a school can proclaim a national title is obviously and ridiculously bogus, and remains so too.

I think you misunderstood what I was asking. Colley hasn't changed his formula, and hasn't been asked to. The NCAA hasn't told UCF to remove any banners. The OP was just a troll thread like so many lately (thanks, JR).

(05-17-2019 10:38 AM)ken d Wrote:  For the record, we did establish that the OP was bogus and that nothing has changed by either the NCAA or Colley, right?

Yeah, I think that wooshed right over a lot of people's heads.

UCF Natty is here to stay, and CFB is better for it.

Quote:ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — The NCAA officially lists the University of Central Florida as co-national champions on page 115 of its 2018 record book...

Speaking of, it's good to see the editors have finally fixed a certain egregious oversight.

(05-17-2019 12:05 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 10:58 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 10:38 AM)ken d Wrote:  For the record, we did establish that the OP was bogus and that nothing has changed by either the NCAA or Colley, right?

Seriously? Of course nothing has changed with Colley's final 2017 rankings. UCF still finished first in that.

Of course, the idea that finishing first in one computer like CM means a school can proclaim a national title is obviously and ridiculously bogus, and remains so too.

I think you misunderstood what I was asking. Colley hasn't changed his formula, and hasn't been asked to. The NCAA hasn't told UCF to remove any banners. The OP was just a troll thread like so many lately (thanks, JR).

FWIW, I understood exactly what you were asking, which baffled me because it was obviously a troll threat inspired by JR's post from the git.

(05-17-2019 02:18 PM)chester Wrote:  

Quote:ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) — The NCAA officially lists the University of Central Florida as co-national champions on page 115 of its 2018 record book...

Speaking of, it's good to see the editors have finally fixed a certain egregious oversight.

As i discussed last year, this shows the bogus-ness of the entire UCF campaign, as the NCAA record book never recognized a single lone BCS computer as conferring a national title in any previous year, until UCF harped about it.

Then, in order to include bogus UCF 2017, they had to go back and do a bunch of others, which they originally did NOT do when they added UCF, precisely because that was indeed never the standard.

Not that what the NCAA record book says matters anyway, as the NCAA is not the arbiter of the FBS national championship and never has been.

(05-17-2019 05:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 09:36 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 04:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 03:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The CFP is quite a bit different. Even Cleveland Browns fans can say at the beginning of the season that they have a chance to go to the playoffs.

The Cleveland Browns and say Miami of Ohio have essentially the same barrier to making the playoffs: They might not be good enough compared to other teams.

I mean, think about the last 5 seasons. Why have the Browns not made the playoffs? Other teams were better and so got the playoff spots each of those years.

The same is true with Miami of Ohio, they too did not make the CFP playoffs the last five years because other teams were better and so got the playoff spots.

The funny thing about the discussion of the validity of the CFP system on this board is that objection to the CFP comes overwhelmingly from fans of G5 schools, even though their schools obviously did not belong in the playoffs. The schools that really did have a reasonable case for being in the playoffs - like Ohio State in 2017, or Baylor in 2014 - they basically never object, aren't heard from at all around here.

if the CFP is "unfair" to anyone, it's to the teams that end up 5th or 6th in the final CFP rankings, and have a plausible case that they might be better than the #4 team that did get in. Those teams are always P5, not G5, teams.

You can't seriously claim that Cleveland and Miami have the same barriers. They are not close. Miami can go undefeated and not be in the playoffs. Cleveland could get in with a 10-6 record or even worse. AND Cleveland gets to play some of their games against good teams at home.

Not to mention that if the NFL was as chintzie in playoff spots as CFB is, their playoffs would consist of one team. AND, Cleveland can get into the playoffs based on their record rather than depending on a vote.

I'm talking about practical realities. Miami of Ohio will never miss the playoffs because they deserved to be in them but were denied. So it is pointless for MoH fans to complain about the system. The same is true of the Browns.

As for the size of the playoffs, yes, that is a barrier to MoH. The CFP playoffs are very exclusive, only 1 in 33 FBS teams gets in. But, that makes them extremely hard for *anyone* to get in, regardless of conference.

E.g., Ohio State has as big a name as anyone, has won the B1G title the last two years while losing just three games over those two seasons, a combined record of 25-3, and has missed the playoffs both times.

It's hard for everybody.

No, it's hard for some, impossible for others.

(05-17-2019 10:41 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-17-2019 05:47 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 09:36 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 04:27 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(05-16-2019 03:48 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  The CFP is quite a bit different. Even Cleveland Browns fans can say at the beginning of the season that they have a chance to go to the playoffs.

The Cleveland Browns and say Miami of Ohio have essentially the same barrier to making the playoffs: They might not be good enough compared to other teams.

I mean, think about the last 5 seasons. Why have the Browns not made the playoffs? Other teams were better and so got the playoff spots each of those years.

The same is true with Miami of Ohio, they too did not make the CFP playoffs the last five years because other teams were better and so got the playoff spots.

The funny thing about the discussion of the validity of the CFP system on this board is that objection to the CFP comes overwhelmingly from fans of G5 schools, even though their schools obviously did not belong in the playoffs. The schools that really did have a reasonable case for being in the playoffs - like Ohio State in 2017, or Baylor in 2014 - they basically never object, aren't heard from at all around here.

if the CFP is "unfair" to anyone, it's to the teams that end up 5th or 6th in the final CFP rankings, and have a plausible case that they might be better than the #4 team that did get in. Those teams are always P5, not G5, teams.

You can't seriously claim that Cleveland and Miami have the same barriers. They are not close. Miami can go undefeated and not be in the playoffs. Cleveland could get in with a 10-6 record or even worse. AND Cleveland gets to play some of their games against good teams at home.

Not to mention that if the NFL was as chintzie in playoff spots as CFB is, their playoffs would consist of one team. AND, Cleveland can get into the playoffs based on their record rather than depending on a vote.

I'm talking about practical realities. Miami of Ohio will never miss the playoffs because they deserved to be in them but were denied. So it is pointless for MoH fans to complain about the system. The same is true of the Browns.

As for the size of the playoffs, yes, that is a barrier to MoH. The CFP playoffs are very exclusive, only 1 in 33 FBS teams gets in. But, that makes them extremely hard for *anyone* to get in, regardless of conference.

E.g., Ohio State has as big a name as anyone, has won the B1G title the last two years while losing just three games over those two seasons, a combined record of 25-3, and has missed the playoffs both times.

It's hard for everybody.

No, it's hard for some, impossible for others.

That's just not true. Or at least, it's a completely unsupported claim.