How much more time on the Hokies' bench does former JMU women's head basketball coach and and men's PG Kenny Brooks have? Once again, his VT team started out on fire in non-conference play. And once again, they're laying an egg in the ACC season. They're 0-3 in the conference and the next two games don't look promising--#1 Notre Dame in Blacksburg and then on the road at #8 NC State. An 0-5 ACC start is very possible.

Kenny's not performing any worse than his predecessors--a little better, actually--but he's not performing well, especially relative to the men's team. I always liked Kenny from his playing days at JMU. He was humble, hard-working and capable. I ran across him at a barbecue joint last summer in Christiansburg with his wife and daughter, wished him well and got a quick picture.

I hope he can turn things around.

1. no way he is on the hot seat
2. womans basketball has to have a longer leash the football and mens basketball
3. Kenny will get it done

if anyone is on the hot seat, i would think it is fuentes. a losing record in the acc? losing to odu. should of loss to virgnia. football is number 1 at vatech. another subpar year and he may be looking for a new job

A little bit. It is not helping that he has one player averaging 28 minutes a game and shooting less than 30% from the field. Having two of your children on the roster is a not an easy thing to manage. I hope this year they are having growing pains and he has some major talent on the way. The ACC is a tough, tough conference.

I'm not sure Fuente is on the hot seat. They lost their starting QB, the defense had an uncharacteristically bad year, and they were young. Justin got them back to 10 wins in 2016 and 9 in 2017, which was the most since Beamer's 2011 season.

Now, another year or two like 2018, and I'd agree.

Kenny's losses have been close losses. Still, the L is what counts. He talks about his kids being scrappier and doing the dirty work. The ACC is a meat grinder. They have to be nasty, tough kids.

I think VT was one of the youngest teams in the country this past year in football. And Kenny took over a very bad and moribund program at VT and is trying to build them up to respectable national prominence. This is only his third year and the wins in conference will start this season. A lot of tough luck losses so far, but I foresee post-season basketball in the future for the Hokies.

No. Let's move on and talk about JMU stuff.....

No.

yep - I agree with PG - Kenny is fine for now.

Not hot, per se....but certainly drawing scrutiny. Any coach who is winless in conference play and staring at 0-5 can’t feel totally secure.

(01-13-2019 09:57 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  I think VT was one of the youngest teams in the country this past year in football. And Kenny took over a very bad and moribund program at VT and is trying to build them up to respectable national prominence. This is only his third year and the wins in conference will start this season. A lot of tough luck losses so far, but I foresee post-season basketball in the future for the Hokies.

Well can't have it both ways.....if Rowe is on the hot-seat to perform and improve in year 3 at JMU, not sure how KB cannot be on a similar hot-seat at VT. KB has racked up wins each season with easy OOC games, then gets beat in conference. Hey he is making more than Rowe to coach WBB so yeah he is probably feeling some heat down there in Blacksburg. As we know close don't count/matter it is W's/L's that count and right now KB is collecting a lot of L's.

WBB is not as important to VT as MBB. That's just a fact. Kenny will be given a couple more years to undo the damage done by previous coaches. The ACC is a hella competitive league in WBB since Notre Dame got in there and VT has a long ways to go, the only direction being up. There's a bit of a difference between that and MBB in a mid-major, non-P5 conference. Un-knot thy drawers.

(01-14-2019 01:22 PM)orange-to-purple Wrote:  WBB is not as important to VT as MBB. That's just a fact. Kenny will be given a couple more years to undo the damage done by previous coaches. The ACC is a hella competitive league in WBB since Notre Dame got in there and VT has a long ways to go, the only direction being up. There's a bit of a difference between that and MBB in a mid-major, non-P5 conference. Un-knot thy drawers.

ehhh....my drawers are not knotted whatsover.....actually 'free-balling' today for your info.

But I am over KB, take off thy purple shaded glasses (or is it just a KB man-crush) he is simply not getting it done at the top level as a coach. KB is a good coach, but perhaps his level is the mid-major level. Winners win regardless of level and sport they coach.

(01-14-2019 01:37 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:22 PM)orange-to-purple Wrote:  WBB is not as important to VT as MBB. That's just a fact. Kenny will be given a couple more years to undo the damage done by previous coaches. The ACC is a hella competitive league in WBB since Notre Dame got in there and VT has a long ways to go, the only direction being up. There's a bit of a difference between that and MBB in a mid-major, non-P5 conference. Un-knot thy drawers.

ehhh....my drawers are not knotted whatsover.....actually 'free-balling' today for your info.

But I am over KB, take off thy purple shaded glasses (or is it just a KB man-crush) he is simply not getting it done at the top level as a coach. KB is a good coach, but perhaps his level is the mid-major level. Winners win regardless of level and sport they coach.

I think it is a misperception that good coaches can "go anywhere" and win. The dynamics of a winning program are more than that, and part of the reason it is so tough for us to turn around MBB.

Rip Scherer : great coach (at JMU)
Withers : good/decent coach (at JMU)
Houston : amazing coach (at JMU), good/decent (at Citadel), ECU ???
KB : great coach (at JMU)

3 of those 4 have struggled elsewhere, and it wasn't just about the "level" ... schools also play a factor in success, with everything from facilities and fan support to ability to attract talent.

KB could return to JMU and look like a great coach again. Good chance he will succeed at VT, but its a much harder path there, and not just because of the conference. It is hard to pull a team out of the gutter.

(01-14-2019 01:48 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:37 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:22 PM)orange-to-purple Wrote:  WBB is not as important to VT as MBB. That's just a fact. Kenny will be given a couple more years to undo the damage done by previous coaches. The ACC is a hella competitive league in WBB since Notre Dame got in there and VT has a long ways to go, the only direction being up. There's a bit of a difference between that and MBB in a mid-major, non-P5 conference. Un-knot thy drawers.

ehhh....my drawers are not knotted whatsover.....actually 'free-balling' today for your info.

But I am over KB, take off thy purple shaded glasses (or is it just a KB man-crush) he is simply not getting it done at the top level as a coach. KB is a good coach, but perhaps his level is the mid-major level. Winners win regardless of level and sport they coach.

I think it is a misperception that good coaches can "go anywhere" and win. The dynamics of a winning program are more than that, and part of the reason it is so tough for us to turn around MBB.

Rip Scherer : great coach (at JMU)
Withers : good/decent coach (at JMU)
Houston : amazing coach (at JMU), good/decent (at Citadel), ECU ???
KB : great coach (at JMU)

3 of those 4 have struggled elsewhere, and it wasn't just about the "level" ... schools also play a factor in success, with everything from facilities and fan support to ability to attract talent.

KB could return to JMU and look like a great coach again. Good chance he will succeed at VT, but its a much harder path there, and not just because of the conference. It is hard to pull a team out of the gutter.

When I said good coaches win, I was not really referring to good at JMU coaches that then could not replicate that elsewhere. Need to more than a single stop to proclaim someone a good coach. I was thinking more along the line of Larry Brown, Rick Pitino, Roy Williams, Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Steve Spurrier, Billy Donovan (granted success in college DOES NOT translate to pro success)

(01-14-2019 01:55 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:48 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:37 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:22 PM)orange-to-purple Wrote:  WBB is not as important to VT as MBB. That's just a fact. Kenny will be given a couple more years to undo the damage done by previous coaches. The ACC is a hella competitive league in WBB since Notre Dame got in there and VT has a long ways to go, the only direction being up. There's a bit of a difference between that and MBB in a mid-major, non-P5 conference. Un-knot thy drawers.

ehhh....my drawers are not knotted whatsover.....actually 'free-balling' today for your info.

But I am over KB, take off thy purple shaded glasses (or is it just a KB man-crush) he is simply not getting it done at the top level as a coach. KB is a good coach, but perhaps his level is the mid-major level. Winners win regardless of level and sport they coach.

I think it is a misperception that good coaches can "go anywhere" and win. The dynamics of a winning program are more than that, and part of the reason it is so tough for us to turn around MBB.

Rip Scherer : great coach (at JMU)
Withers : good/decent coach (at JMU)
Houston : amazing coach (at JMU), good/decent (at Citadel), ECU ???
KB : great coach (at JMU)

3 of those 4 have struggled elsewhere, and it wasn't just about the "level" ... schools also play a factor in success, with everything from facilities and fan support to ability to attract talent.

KB could return to JMU and look like a great coach again. Good chance he will succeed at VT, but its a much harder path there, and not just because of the conference. It is hard to pull a team out of the gutter.

When I said good coaches win, I was not really referring to good at JMU coaches that then could not replicate that elsewhere. Need to more than a single stop to proclaim someone a good coach. I was thinking more along the line of Larry Brown, Rick Pitino, Roy Williams, Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Steve Spurrier, Billy Donovan (granted success in college DOES NOT translate to pro success)

Ok, get your point, two additional thoughts:

1) I'm not sure Saban would have had the same success everywhere, for instance at a Texas St or Georgia St type school. Maybe today, because of his fame, he would, but not if he wasn't established as a name brand and able to leverage that for recruiting. Spurrier didn't seem that amazing when he went to South Carolina ...

2) Many good coaches are very selective about which school they will go to. Cig has turned down other opportunities, both in his past, and I believe recently. He came to JMU because he sees a prime opportunity to succeed in a big way. Some of these great coaches you name may owe part of their success to that same selectivity, going to where they see the support and opportunity to succeed.

My belief is a bad coach can destroy a program, but it is very very hard for a good coach to revive one at the bottom. Its an uphill battle, and normally its not an overnight process. Everything works against it, because they just institutionally don't have the right elements, including fan support and excitement. Good recruits don't want to be in that situation either, and the whole thing snowballs.

(01-14-2019 02:26 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:55 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:48 PM)JMURocks Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:37 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 01:22 PM)orange-to-purple Wrote:  WBB is not as important to VT as MBB. That's just a fact. Kenny will be given a couple more years to undo the damage done by previous coaches. The ACC is a hella competitive league in WBB since Notre Dame got in there and VT has a long ways to go, the only direction being up. There's a bit of a difference between that and MBB in a mid-major, non-P5 conference. Un-knot thy drawers.

ehhh....my drawers are not knotted whatsover.....actually 'free-balling' today for your info.

But I am over KB, take off thy purple shaded glasses (or is it just a KB man-crush) he is simply not getting it done at the top level as a coach. KB is a good coach, but perhaps his level is the mid-major level. Winners win regardless of level and sport they coach.

I think it is a misperception that good coaches can "go anywhere" and win. The dynamics of a winning program are more than that, and part of the reason it is so tough for us to turn around MBB.

Rip Scherer : great coach (at JMU)
Withers : good/decent coach (at JMU)
Houston : amazing coach (at JMU), good/decent (at Citadel), ECU ???
KB : great coach (at JMU)

3 of those 4 have struggled elsewhere, and it wasn't just about the "level" ... schools also play a factor in success, with everything from facilities and fan support to ability to attract talent.

KB could return to JMU and look like a great coach again. Good chance he will succeed at VT, but its a much harder path there, and not just because of the conference. It is hard to pull a team out of the gutter.

When I said good coaches win, I was not really referring to good at JMU coaches that then could not replicate that elsewhere. Need to more than a single stop to proclaim someone a good coach. I was thinking more along the line of Larry Brown, Rick Pitino, Roy Williams, Nick Saban, Lou Holtz, Steve Spurrier, Billy Donovan (granted success in college DOES NOT translate to pro success)

Ok, get your point, two additional thoughts:

1) I'm not sure Saban would have had the same success everywhere, for instance at a Texas St or Georgia St type school. Maybe today, because of his fame, he would, but not if he wasn't established as a name brand and able to leverage that for recruiting. Spurrier didn't seem that amazing when he went to South Carolina ...

2) Many good coaches are very selective about which school they will go to. Cig has turned down other opportunities, both in his past, and I believe recently. He came to JMU because he sees a prime opportunity to succeed in a big way. Some of these great coaches you name may owe part of their success to that same selectivity, going to where they see the support and opportunity to succeed.

My belief is a bad coach can destroy a program, but it is very very hard for a good coach to revive one at the bottom. Its an uphill battle, and normally its not an overnight process. Everything works against it, because they just institutionally don't have the right elements, including fan support and excitement. Good recruits don't want to be in that situation either, and the whole thing snowballs.

fair points and true there are limits. And yes if/when coaches are not selective in the jobs they take (first train out of town for a big payday) they certainly run the risk of derailing their career and rise through the ranks. 232-63-1 ---- that is Saban's overall record in 4 head coaching stops in college --- Toledo/Michigan St/LSU/Alabama. I would say Saban was quite selective in choosing his opportunities and also performed at each stop give the resources along the way.

Saban was amazing at every location he went to. Also would say, personally, what MH did at the cit was more impressive than what he did here given the challenges he faced.

KB is a good coach, but he's not great. Anybody that said otherwise was just putting on the purple shades. That being said, he's not on the hot seat. They made it the WNIT finals last year and he keeps showing positive trajectory for their program. As long as he can keep showing improvement, he's fine.

I've already given my opinions on this in this thread from last Thursday... https://csnbbs.com/thread-868100.html

Just wanted to add that the Hokies signed 6'4" 5-star Post, Elizabeth Kitley, from Summerfield, NC, back in the early signing period in November. Also, he already has a 4-star commit for the 2020 class in 6'1" Forward, Nevaeh Dean, from Ohio.

Of course, just to compete for the middle of the pack in the ACC, he will need a lot of 4- and 5-star talent types. Notre Dame and Louisville are each on a different level. Then, you have NC State and Syracuse who are Final 4 contenders. Very few easy nights in the brutal ACC.

(01-14-2019 03:53 PM)Wear Purple Wrote:  I've already given my opinions on this in this thread from last Thursday... https://csnbbs.com/thread-868100.html

Just wanted to add that the Hokies signed 6'4" 5-star Post, Elizabeth Kitley, from Summerfield, NC, back in the early signing period in November. Also, he already has a 4-star commit for the 2020 class in 6'1" Forward, Nevaeh Dean, from Ohio.

Of course, just to compete for the middle of the pack in the ACC, he will need a lot of 4- and 5-star talent types. Notre Dame and Louisville are each on a different level. Then, you have NC State and Syracuse who are Final 4 contenders. Very few easy nights in the brutal ACC.

Well that is good to hear. Thanks for the info.

(01-14-2019 03:34 PM)JMU08 Wrote:  Saban was amazing at every location he went to. Also would say, personally, what MH did at the cit was more impressive than what he did here given the challenges he faced.

KB is a good coach, but he's not great. Anybody that said otherwise was just putting on the purple shades. That being said, he's not on the hot seat. They made it the WNIT finals last year and he keeps showing positive trajectory for their program. As long as he can keep showing improvement, he's fine.

I guess the difference between "good", "very very good" and "great" are somewhat subjective terms.

Kenny gave us 6 NCAA trips, 5 WNIT, and was 29-6, 29-4, 27-5 his last 3 years at JMU. I would be ecstatic if a JMU MBB coach could get us remotely close to what he did here. Sure, no sweet 16's or better, but he put us in the hunt nationally, and made us dominant in the CAA. And yes, Shelia M was even better, but that doesn't diminish his performance.