A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

It would be in the ACC's interest. it would not be in Notre Dame's.

(01-11-2019 10:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

Even if the ACC were to expand to 15 teams, under our current agreement with Notre Dame, every school in the conference would play them once every three years with the 5 game schedule.

(01-11-2019 10:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

When first being negotiated ND wanted it to be only 4 games while the ACC wanted it to be 6. The compromise was 5.

ND, obviously, would fight such a move and as X-Lance points out, should the ACC get the championship game rule changes AND expand to 15 and stop, 5 makes more sense.

However, I have suggested it might be in the ACC's best interest to at least attempt to bring this about on the caveat that the 6th game be an annual game against Miami. This would give the Hurricanes two annual marquee games (FSU currently has three - Miami, Clemson, and Florida) and an attractive attendance drawing home game in years they play FSU on the road.

But that obviously is all coming from an ACC perspective. Not sure what the ACC would have to leverage this to come about from an ND perspective and if such leverage did exist, a 6th game would be wasted in my opinion if it wasn't used to specifically help a football school in the conference.

Football, football, football should be the top three focus for all future ACC decisions.

Cheers,
Neil

(01-11-2019 10:20 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  It would be in the ACC's interest. it would not be in Notre Dame's.

This.

The five-game set works ideally for Notre Dame. They utilize a format of six home games in South Bend, five away games, and one major metropolitan area neutral site "Shamrock Series" home game for scheduling. This preserves traditional yearly rivalries with USC, Stanford, and Navy - and five rotating ACC opponents (two away ACC games will coincide in even years with away games at Navy and three away ACC games will coincide in odd years with home games against Navy), two home and home series (one home game and one away game), one one-time opponent home game, and the traveling Shamrock Series home game.

Yearly Rivalries
USC, Stanford, Navy

Five ACC Opponents

Home/Home
Georgia (2018/2019), Michigan (2018/2019), Arkansas (2020/2025), Wisconsin (2020/2021), Purdue (2021/2024/2025/2026), Ohio State (2022/2023), Texas A&M (2024/2025), Alabama (2028/2029)

One-Time Opponent Home Game
New Mexico (2019), Bowling Green (2019), Western Michigan (2020), Toledo (2021)

Shamrock Series
Wisconsin - Lambeau Field (2020), Wisconsin - Soldier Field (2021)

(01-11-2019 10:54 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

When first being negotiated ND wanted it to be only 4 games while the ACC wanted it to be 6. The compromise was 5.

ND, obviously, would fight such a move and as X-Lance points out, should the ACC get the championship game rule changes AND expand to 15 and stop, 5 makes more sense.

However, I have suggested it might be in the ACC's best interest to at least attempt to bring this about on the caveat that the 6th game be an annual game against Miami. This would give the Hurricanes two annual marquee games (FSU currently has three - Miami, Clemson, and Florida) and an attractive attendance drawing home game in years they play FSU on the road.

But that obviously is all coming from an ACC perspective. Not sure what the ACC would have to leverage this to come about from an ND perspective and if such leverage did exist, a 6th game would be wasted in my opinion if it wasn't used to specifically help a football school in the conference.

Football, football, football should be the top three focus for all future ACC decisions.

Cheers,
Neil

There is a contract mandating 5 games per season thorough 2036.

ND is not going to agree to another ACC game.

The ACC has no legal leverage to force that issue.

(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:54 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

When first being negotiated ND wanted it to be only 4 games while the ACC wanted it to be 6. The compromise was 5.

ND, obviously, would fight such a move and as X-Lance points out, should the ACC get the championship game rule changes AND expand to 15 and stop, 5 makes more sense.

However, I have suggested it might be in the ACC's best interest to at least attempt to bring this about on the caveat that the 6th game be an annual game against Miami. This would give the Hurricanes two annual marquee games (FSU currently has three - Miami, Clemson, and Florida) and an attractive attendance drawing home game in years they play FSU on the road.

But that obviously is all coming from an ACC perspective. Not sure what the ACC would have to leverage this to come about from an ND perspective and if such leverage did exist, a 6th game would be wasted in my opinion if it wasn't used to specifically help a football school in the conference.

Football, football, football should be the top three focus for all future ACC decisions.

Cheers,
Neil

There is a contract mandating 5 games per season thorough 2036.

ND is not going to agree to another ACC game.

The ACC has no legal leverage to force that issue.

I was going to say the same thing. This is a long term contract and there is no basis for forcing a reopening. If this is something the ACC was really interested in expanding this arrangement, the ACC would have to offer something substantial to ND. One possibility, for instance, might be offering to share the Orange Bowl bid. I don't believe the ACC would be willing to offer this, unless perhaps it was tied to a significant increase in the Orange Bowl payout for other ACC members.

(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:54 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

When first being negotiated ND wanted it to be only 4 games while the ACC wanted it to be 6. The compromise was 5...

Cheers,
Neil

There is a contract mandating 5 games per season thorough 2036.

ND is not going to agree to another ACC game.

The ACC has no legal leverage to force that issue.

I don't see any indication that the ACC will try to "force" Notre Dame to do anything. My guess is that this could happen - but if it does, the driving force will be the other P5 conferences becoming harder to schedule home-and-aways. It's already somewhat tougher for Notre Dame now, but it could become even harder down the road. If and when the Irish need another P5 game, the ACC will be available to them. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that could eventually (perhaps over decades!) creep up to 6, then 7, then 8 games per year - at which point, might as well play for the conference title, right Terry?

If you get a 6th game you could call them a full member. Put them in a 7 team division and only count division games for the title.

(01-11-2019 11:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:54 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

When first being negotiated ND wanted it to be only 4 games while the ACC wanted it to be 6. The compromise was 5...

Cheers,
Neil

There is a contract mandating 5 games per season thorough 2036.

ND is not going to agree to another ACC game.

The ACC has no legal leverage to force that issue.

I don't see any indication that the ACC will try to "force" Notre Dame to do anything. My guess is that this could happen - but if it does, the driving force will be the other P5 conferences becoming harder to schedule home-and-aways. It's already somewhat tougher for Notre Dame now, but it could become even harder down the road. If and when the Irish need another P5 game, the ACC will be available to them. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that could eventually (perhaps over decades!) creep up to 6, then 7, then 8 games per year - at which point, might as well play for the conference title, right Terry?

ND is having no problems scheduling P5 teams like Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, etc...

Georgia (2018/2019)

Michigan (2018/2019)

Arkansas (2020/2025)

Wisconsin (2020/2021)

Purdue (2021/2024/2025/2026)

Ohio State (2022/2023)

Texas A&M (2024/2025)

Alabama (2028/2029)

Why did these Big Ten and SEC schools agree to play ND in football, all the way out to 2029?

Why did the ACC want to play five games per season against ND?

Why in the world would the ACC want to schedule a sixth game per year with ND?

(01-11-2019 11:53 AM)bullet Wrote:  If you get a 6th game you could call them a full member. Put them in a 7 team division and only count division games for the title.

ND doesn't want this and is not interested in this.

(01-11-2019 11:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:54 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

When first being negotiated ND wanted it to be only 4 games while the ACC wanted it to be 6. The compromise was 5...

Cheers,
Neil

There is a contract mandating 5 games per season thorough 2036.

ND is not going to agree to another ACC game.

The ACC has no legal leverage to force that issue.

I don't see any indication that the ACC will try to "force" Notre Dame to do anything. My guess is that this could happen - but if it does, the driving force will be the other P5 conferences becoming harder to schedule home-and-aways. It's already somewhat tougher for Notre Dame now, but it could become even harder down the road. If and when the Irish need another P5 game, the ACC will be available to them. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that could eventually (perhaps over decades!) creep up to 6, then 7, then 8 games per year - at which point, might as well play for the conference title, right Terry?

Interesting. Maybe it could even be the result of ONE P5 conference rather than all of them? What saved ND's "national" schedule was the PAC declining the Big Ten/PAC scheduling alliance due to USC's and Stanford's games with the Irish. As the PAC weakens by the minute I wonder what might happen if the Big Ten decides to revisit this option? Could the PAC afford to decline again?

Also this scheduling option could give the PAC conference multiple games annually in the ETZ and CTZ without having to rely on individual AD offices to schedule on their own. Of course, this works best if the Big Ten is willing to sprinkle these 12 match-ups during the regular season rather than cramming the majority of them into the first three weeks of the season. Is this still a thing for the Big Ten? Or have they adjusted their thinking on this recently?

Cheers,
Neil

(01-11-2019 10:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

1. Yes the ACC could do that to ND
2. No the ACC has no reason to do that to ND
3. Everything is fine as it is - why would the ACC screw that up?
4. ND is not SO powerful as to get everything it wants, otherwise they would still be independent and not have the ACC office scheduling five of their football games - that said the only way I would see a 6th game added instead of a 6th, 7th, and 8th, would be if the ACC added Navy for NON-basketball sports.

(01-11-2019 12:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:54 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

When first being negotiated ND wanted it to be only 4 games while the ACC wanted it to be 6. The compromise was 5...

Cheers,
Neil

There is a contract mandating 5 games per season thorough 2036.

ND is not going to agree to another ACC game.

The ACC has no legal leverage to force that issue.

I don't see any indication that the ACC will try to "force" Notre Dame to do anything. My guess is that this could happen - but if it does, the driving force will be the other P5 conferences becoming harder to schedule home-and-aways. It's already somewhat tougher for Notre Dame now, but it could become even harder down the road. If and when the Irish need another P5 game, the ACC will be available to them. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that could eventually (perhaps over decades!) creep up to 6, then 7, then 8 games per year - at which point, might as well play for the conference title, right Terry?

ND is having no problems scheduling P5 teams like Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, etc...

Georgia (2018/2019)

Michigan (2018/2019)

Arkansas (2020/2025)

Wisconsin (2020/2021)

Purdue (2021/2024/2025/2026)

Ohio State (2022/2023)

Texas A&M (2024/2025)

Alabama (2028/2029)

Why did these Big Ten and SEC schools agree to play ND in football, all the way out to 2029?

Why did the ACC want to play five games per season against ND?

Why in the world would the ACC want to schedule a sixth game per year with ND?

I thought ND did NOT want to play Michigan anymore, Terry. Also, the game against Arkansas is strange, IMO. Arkansas’ population is mostly Baptists and Pentecostals, with very few Catholics. Arkansas doesn’t have many football recruits either . ND doesn’t really get anything out of it whatsoever. Why bother scheduling it , Terry??

Over the last five years, the ACC record in regular season games against Notre Dame is 7-18. Why would they be saying to themselves "golly, I want me some more of that"?

If Notre Dame were to approach the ACC, instead of the other way around, with this proposal, would the ACC accept it without hesitation? I suppose it's possible, but I don't think it's a slam dunk.

(01-11-2019 01:16 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 12:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:54 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  When first being negotiated ND wanted it to be only 4 games while the ACC wanted it to be 6. The compromise was 5...

Cheers,
Neil

There is a contract mandating 5 games per season thorough 2036.

ND is not going to agree to another ACC game.

The ACC has no legal leverage to force that issue.

I don't see any indication that the ACC will try to "force" Notre Dame to do anything. My guess is that this could happen - but if it does, the driving force will be the other P5 conferences becoming harder to schedule home-and-aways. It's already somewhat tougher for Notre Dame now, but it could become even harder down the road. If and when the Irish need another P5 game, the ACC will be available to them. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that could eventually (perhaps over decades!) creep up to 6, then 7, then 8 games per year - at which point, might as well play for the conference title, right Terry?

ND is having no problems scheduling P5 teams like Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, etc...

Georgia (2018/2019)

Michigan (2018/2019)

Arkansas (2020/2025)

Wisconsin (2020/2021)

Purdue (2021/2024/2025/2026)

Ohio State (2022/2023)

Texas A&M (2024/2025)

Alabama (2028/2029)

Why did these Big Ten and SEC schools agree to play ND in football, all the way out to 2029?

Why did the ACC want to play five games per season against ND?

Why in the world would the ACC want to schedule a sixth game per year with ND?

I thought ND did NOT want to play Michigan anymore, Terry. Also, the game against Arkansas is strange, IMO. ND doesn’t really get anything out of it whatsoever. Why bother scheduling it , Terry??

ND and Michigan buried the hatchet a while back. And ND probably scheduled Arkansas when they weren't as bad as they were last year.

(01-11-2019 12:05 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:54 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:17 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A pretty straight forward question here: Would it be in the ACC's interest to leverage for more that the 5 promised games?

When first being negotiated ND wanted it to be only 4 games while the ACC wanted it to be 6. The compromise was 5...

Cheers,
Neil

There is a contract mandating 5 games per season thorough 2036.

ND is not going to agree to another ACC game.

The ACC has no legal leverage to force that issue.

I don't see any indication that the ACC will try to "force" Notre Dame to do anything. My guess is that this could happen - but if it does, the driving force will be the other P5 conferences becoming harder to schedule home-and-aways. It's already somewhat tougher for Notre Dame now, but it could become even harder down the road. If and when the Irish need another P5 game, the ACC will be available to them. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that could eventually (perhaps over decades!) creep up to 6, then 7, then 8 games per year - at which point, might as well play for the conference title, right Terry?

Interesting. Maybe it could even be the result of ONE P5 conference rather than all of them? What saved ND's "national" schedule was the PAC declining the Big Ten/PAC scheduling alliance due to USC's and Stanford's games with the Irish. As the PAC weakens by the minute I wonder what might happen if the Big Ten decides to revisit this option? Could the PAC afford to decline again?

Also this scheduling option could give the PAC conference multiple games annually in the ETZ and CTZ without having to rely on individual AD offices to schedule on their own. Of course, this works best if the Big Ten is willing to sprinkle these 12 match-ups during the regular season rather than cramming the majority of them into the first three weeks of the season. Is this still a thing for the Big Ten? Or have they adjusted their thinking on this recently?

Cheers,
Neil

The Big Ten has adjusted some to their old school scheduling. If you've noticed the last couple years they have held a few Conference games to open the season. This then obviously opens a spot later in the year for a non-con game.

Also, my belief is that the Big Ten would still be happy with an alliance with the Pac. As you stated, it's starting to become more and more obvious that the Pac needs to become a lot more noticeable to the central and eastern time zones.

If the Pac chose this path, I honestly believe the Big Ten would fall back to eight conference games a year. We are talking about a lot of money when you can create inventory for games from two major conferences. Kind of like the ACC/SEC currently have. And I wouldn't be surprised if more games between the two were added over the years.

I guess try to think of the 4 conferences of ACC, SEC, PAC and Big Ten and how this might shake out.

Espn- ACC/SEC
Fox- PAC/BIG

God only knows the discussions these networks are having with the conferences to create the best top tier games for all that TV money?

Not forgetting about the Big 12, just the relationships between the 4 conferences I've mentioned have been established for years.

(01-11-2019 01:24 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:16 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I thought ND did NOT want to play Michigan anymore, Terry. Also, the game against Arkansas is strange, IMO. ND doesn’t really get anything out of it whatsoever. Why bother scheduling it , Terry??

ND and Michigan buried the hatchet a while back. And ND probably scheduled Arkansas when they weren't as bad as they were last year.

I never understood that ND did not want to play Michigan, or Purdue or Michigan State for that matter. ND needed to guaranty the availability of P5 opponents during the portion of the season dedicated to conference games, they needed to provide a quality home for their basketball teams and Olympic sports, and they needed quality bowl tie ins for years in which they don't qualify for an NY6 bowl. The ACC addressed all of these needs in exchange for ND's agreement to play 5 games per year (on average) against ACC opponents. However, five annual games needed to go to ensure the availability of these windows. The five windows were created by dropping Michigan, Purdue, Michigan State, Pittsburgh and Boston College as annual games. However, Notre Dame retains two slots in its schedule for home and homes versus P5 opponents outside of the ACC and is happy to use at least one of these each year, sometimes two, to schedule a Big Ten opponent, including Michigan, Purdue and Michigan State.

s

(01-11-2019 01:16 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 12:04 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:50 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 11:26 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 10:54 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  When first being negotiated ND wanted it to be only 4 games while the ACC wanted it to be 6. The compromise was 5...

Cheers,
Neil

There is a contract mandating 5 games per season thorough 2036.

ND is not going to agree to another ACC game.

The ACC has no legal leverage to force that issue.

I don't see any indication that the ACC will try to "force" Notre Dame to do anything. My guess is that this could happen - but if it does, the driving force will be the other P5 conferences becoming harder to schedule home-and-aways. It's already somewhat tougher for Notre Dame now, but it could become even harder down the road. If and when the Irish need another P5 game, the ACC will be available to them. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if that could eventually (perhaps over decades!) creep up to 6, then 7, then 8 games per year - at which point, might as well play for the conference title, right Terry?

ND is having no problems scheduling P5 teams like Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, etc...

Georgia (2018/2019)

Michigan (2018/2019)

Arkansas (2020/2025)

Wisconsin (2020/2021)

Purdue (2021/2024/2025/2026)

Ohio State (2022/2023)

Texas A&M (2024/2025)

Alabama (2028/2029)

Why did these Big Ten and SEC schools agree to play ND in football, all the way out to 2029?

Why did the ACC want to play five games per season against ND?

Why in the world would the ACC want to schedule a sixth game per year with ND?

I thought ND did NOT want to play Michigan anymore, Terry. Also, the game against Arkansas is strange, IMO. Arkansas’ population is mostly Baptists and Pentecostals, with very few Catholics. Arkansas doesn’t have many football recruits either . ND doesn’t really get anything out of it whatsoever. Why bother scheduling it , Terry??

The game against Arkansas is not strange at all.

It fits perfectly into Jack Swabrick's scheduling philosophy in the playoffs era.

He has given a couple of interviews on this. As an independent, he wants ND to have "markers" regarding all of the P5 conferences.

This is part of his "our 12 is better than your 13" scheduling idea.

A game against Arkansas gives ND a "marker" regarding the SEC.

5 games against the ACC gives plenty of markers there.

Games against Michigan and Purdue takes care of the Big Ten.

Games against Southern Cal and Stanford provides the Pac 12 markers.

ND just finished home/home series against Texas and Oklahoma which covered the Big 12, but future markers are needed.

The only leverage that ACC would have to convince Notre Dame to add one game to the current 5-game contract would be if the ACC could provide a path for Notre Dame to the ACC CCG with only 6 games. However, there is no indication that Notre Dame would want that path to the ACC CCG. Notre Dame just played in the 4-team CFP while sitting at home CCG weekend....and would the rest of the ACC schools really be willing to give Notre Dame a CCG path when playing only 6 ACC games?

Assuming CCG deregulation, another creative idea could be to add Navy for football only. Then, Notre Dame could *technically* play 6 ACC games - including Navy every year. There would be no change to Notre Dame's current scheduling philosophy. But, Notre Dame would likely still have little desire to play more than those 6 ACC games and would still run into the question of whether the rest of the ACC would really want ND to have a path to the CCG without a full ACC schedule.